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MKULTRA is one of the
most disturbing instances
of intelligence community
abuse on record.

MKULTRA: CIA Mind Control
by Jon Elliston
Dossier Editor
pscpdocs@aol.com
For many Americans, the 1950s were a docile decade. In U.S. history books, the period is mostly portrayed as a mellow, orderly one, especially in light of the social upheavals that followed in the 1960s. But for the CIA, the "I Like Ike" years were packed with adventure and action, much of it conducted outside of the public's view. Few programs were sheltered with more secrecy than the Agency's mind control experiments, identified together with the code-name MKULTRA.
Concerned about rumors of communist brainwashing of POWs during the Korean war, in April 1953 CIA Director Allen Dulles authorized the MKULTRA program, which would later become notorious for the unusual and sometimes inhumane tests that the CIA financed. Reviewing the experiments five years later, one secrecy-conscious CIA auditor wrote: "Precautions must be taken not only to protect operations from exposure to enemy forces but also to conceal these activities from the American public in general. The knowledge that the agency is engaging in unethical and illicit activities would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles."
Though many of the documents related to MKULTRA were destroyed by the CIA in 1972, some records relating to the program have made it into the public domain, and the work of historians, investigative reporters, and various congressional committees has resulted in the release of enough information to make MKULTRA one of the most disturbing instances of intelligence community abuse on record. As writer Mark Zepezauer puts it, "the surviving history is nasty enough."
The most notorious MKULTRA experiments were the CIA's pioneering studies of the drug that would years later feed the heads of millions: lysergic acid diethylamide, or LSD. The CIA was intrigued by the drug, and harbored hopes that acid or a similar drug could be used to clandestinely disorient and manipulate target foreign leaders. (The Agency would consider several such schemes in its pursuit of Cuban leader Fidel Castro, who they wanted to send into a drug-induced stupor or tirade during a public or live radio speech.) LSD was also viewed as a way to loosen tongues in CIA interrogations.
In his thorough book on MKULTRA and similar projects, The Search for the "Manchurian Candidate," John Marks reports that most of the CIA researchers tried LSD themselves. In fact, an early phase of the experiments was probably the setting for the first acid trip in the United States -- experienced by a courageous CIA man no less!
The fact that these experiments took place is remarkable in and of itself, but the story of the CIA's LSD trips approaches the unbelievably bizarre when the cast of characters is considered. In his recent history of the early exploits of the CIA, The Very Best Men, Evan Thomas describes Sidney Gottlieb, the Stranglovian scientist who ran the MKULTRA project: "Born with a clubfoot and a stutter, he compensated by becoming an expert folk dancer and obtaining a Ph.D. from Cal Tech. A pleasant man who lived on a farm with his wife, Gottlieb drank only goat's milk and grew Christmas trees, which he sold at a roadside stand." When he wasn't busy on the farm, Dr. Gottlieb was dosing subjects with LSD-laced drinks, scrutinizing their reactions, and searching for qualities of the drug that would benefit CIA covert actions.
The CIA's LSD experiments were conducted on many unwitting subjects, most often prisoners or patrons of brothels set up and run by the Agency, which had installed two-way mirrors in the establishments to allow for observation of the drug's effects (these studies were referred to as "Operation Midnight Climax"). Some of the MKULTRA subjects who were informed faced even more inhumane treatment: during one experiment in Kentucky, seven volunteers were given LSD for 77 days straight.
One of the experiments probably proved fatal. On November 19, 1953, an Army scientist and germ warfare specialist named Frank Olson, who was working on an MKULTRA project, was slipped a solid dose of LSD in his drink. Then, after spending eight days stumbling about in what many observers described as a paranoid, depressed state, Olson jumped through his hotel window in New York and fell ten stories to his death.
The Agency covered up its role in Olson's demise, and twenty-two years would pass before his family would learn of the events leading up to his death. When the CIA's acid exploits were made public in the mid-1970s, the Agency found itself facing heavy criticism. One Senate committee put it this way in 1975:
"From its beginning in the early 1950s until its termination in 1963, the program of surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting non-volunteer human subjects demonstrates a failure of the CIA's leadership to pay adequate attention to the rights of individuals and to provide effective guidance to CIA employees. Though it was known that the testing was dangerous, the lives of subjects were placed in jeopardy and were ignored.... Although it was clear that the laws of the United States were being violated, the testing continued."
Though the most prominently discussed aspect of MKULTRA is the CIA's LSD work, the program included many other unusual investigations relating to the science of mind control. CIA researchers probed the potential of numerous parapsychological phenomena, including hypnosis, telepathy, precognition, photokinesis and "remote viewing."
These studies weren't conducted merely to satisfy the CIA's scientific curiosity -- the Agency was looking for weapons that would give the United States the upper hand in the mind wars. Toward that objective, the Agency poured millions of dollars into studies probing literally dozens of methods of influencing and controlling the mind. One 1955 MKULTRA document gives an indication of the size and range of the effort; the memo refers to the study of an assortment of mind-altering substances which would:

"promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be discredited in public"

"increase the efficiency of mentation and perception"

"prevent or counteract the intoxicating effect of alcohol"

"promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol"

"produce the signs and symptoms of recognized diseases in a reversible way so that they may be used for malingering, etc."

"render the indication of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness"

"enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation and so-called 'brainwashing'"

"produce amnesia for events preceding and during their use"

"produc[e] shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use"

"produce physical disablement such as paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, etc."

"produce 'pure' euphoria with no subsequent let-down"

"alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon another person is enhanced"

"cause mental confusion of such a type that the individual under its influence will find it difficult to maintain a fabrication under questioning"

"lower the ambition and general working efficiency of men when administered in undetectable amounts"

"promote weakness or distortion of the eyesight or hearing faculties, preferably without permanent effects"
Few of MKULTRA's objectives were realized, but the very conduct of these experiments caused many critics of the CIA to argue that successful or not, CIA scientists shouldn't pry at the doors of perception.

View MKULTRA Documents

Sources:
Gross, Peter, Gentl eman Spy: The Life of Allen Dulles (Houghton Mifflin, 1994).
Thomas, Evan, The Very Best Men (Simon & Schuster, 1995).
Marks, John, The Search for the "Manchurian Candidate": The CIA and Mind Control (Times Books, 1979).
Mark Zepezauer, The CIA's Greatest Hits (Odionan, 1994).
Copyright 1996-1999 ParaScope, Inc.
 

CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 5


Interview With:

Valerie Wolf
Claudia Mullen
Chris deNicola Ebner


Back to CKLN Series Table of Contents
   

From the Ryerson CKLN FM (88.1 in Toronto) Mind Control Series


Wayne Morris:

Good morning, and welcome to another International Connection. We are continuing with our series on Mind Control. This is the 12th in a series and this will be continuing another five months in this time slot. Today we are going to be hearing an interview with Valerie Wolf, Claudia Mullen and Chris deNicola Ebner just after they had given testimony of mind control and radiation experimentation done to them as children to the Presidential Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments. Valerie Wolf is the therapist of Claudia Mullen and Chris deNicola Ebner, both survivors of torture and abuse as part of mind control experiments conducted by the U.S. government. We heard six weeks ago on this show, the actual testimony given at the Radiation Hearings. Today we are going to hear an interview conducted by Will Snodgrass, Chemical Injury Communication Network, a local cable TV producer from Missoula, Montana. Claudia and Chris describe how the mind control doctors induced dissociation or multiple personalities through traumatization and abuse for the purpose of programming the personalities to perform various military intelligence and criminal acts. You are listening to CKLN, 88.1. And now, that interview.


Will Snodgrass:

Valerie, you testified today at the President's Council on Radiation along with two of your clients, and a story unfolded there which America should hear. Probably many Americans will not believe when they hear it. In your work as a professional therapist, what have you found with respect to children and experimentation?

Valerie Wolf:

Basically what we as therapists across the country are finding are a group of clients that formally were considered untreatable, that based on recent information we're finding are reporting having been subjects in mind control experimentation performed by the government, the CIA and the military establishment ... probably from about the late 1940's until middle 80's and may even be going on today.

Will Snodgrass:

Is there any official documentation of these protocols or these experiments?

Valerie Wolf:

There is some documentation of it. There was a Commission on Mind Control in the late 70's but it mostly focused on the use of adults, prisoners, and mental patients. What got missed were the children who were being used in these experiments, and the reason I think that the children were being missed was because they were either too young to speak out at that time, or they were still involved in the experimentation.

Will Snodgrass:

When did you receive either written documentation or electromagnetic documentation about this? Is this something that is circulating within the group of therapists nationally?

Valerie Wolf:

Basically the information was released at the Eastern Regional Conference on Multiple Personality and Dissociative Disorders in June of 1992. Those of us that were working with severely dissociated clients listened to the information and followed up with it. I myself had had contact with seven clients who report being subjects in these experiments. And the way that I have proceeded is that I have deliberately not read any of the documentation or read any of the books because there are several books written on this. Basically what I have done is as my clients have emerged, I have sent my information to Alan Scheflin who is an expert in this area to validate memories, and I have done that so that he will call me back and say "do you know about such and such?" ... I have no clue about any of this. And these clients are real sensitive to everything so that if I knew something, I don't want to cue them or give them information or contaminate their memories, so basically the memories are coming absolutely with total free recall. There is no cueing from me. In fact, they will tell you that I basically say very little. I don't feed them any information as far as what is going on, only as their memories come up and to validate the memories.

Will Snodgrass:

Mr. Scheflin has filed some Freedom of Information (FOIA) requests, we heard that today at the Hearing. Have there been documents provided by the government to him?

Valerie Wolf:

It has been very difficult. He spent twenty years of his life gathering information on this. A lot of the FOIA requests have been slowed down or denied. It's very difficult to get this information and that was one of the reasons we appeared at the Radiation Commission today, because in an attempt to ask them to recommend an investigation of this, and also to help us open the files and get the information we need. We need to be responsible ... we want to know if what these clients are saying is true. Now, what I have found in terms of the stuff I have sent and other therapists have found, is that some of this can be verified. And that they (clients) are telling the truth, and some of the information they are supplying is not published anywhere, it can only come if you file FOIA requests and obviously these clients haven't done that. But these clients know things that there is no way they could know unless they went through the experience.

Claudia Mullen:

There are things that can't even be found through FOIA like the identity of people, their description ...

Will Snodgrass:

Your two clients here, Claudia and Chris, met through your practice. Can you tell me a little bit about the encounter and the discovery that both of you had been involved in CIA or U.S. government experimentation? How did this come to light between the two of you as clients?

Claudia Mullen:

Between Chris and I? There wasn't any connection between Chris and I. I hadn't seen her for two years, and the last time I had seen her, I was being treated for PTSD for something that happened to me that had nothing to do with this. I had no memory of being a victim of this. Chris had no memory. As far as Chris and I, I didn't know she was ... although I knew she was Valerie's patient, I didn't know that she was recovering memories just like I was because she doesn't discuss one patient with another, one client with another. So, there isn't any connection between Chris and I other than the fact that we have the same therapist.

Will Snodgrass:

But you did have the same doctor at one time? Dr. Greene ...

Claudia Mullen:

Well ... yes ...

Pendergast:

Chris, would you like to talk about Dr. Greene?

Chris Denicola Ebner:

Dr. Greene performed radiation as well as mind control and drug experiments on me between 1966 and 1976 and it was done out in the desert and he worked really on mind control with me. He did use radiation experiments on me as far as I remember him doing some radiation experiments on my uterus and my chest, throat, neck ... things like that. He also ... but his main objective with me was to turn me into ... actually to gain total control of my mind and to split it apart into as many different areas as he could, and develop me into a spy assassin and as I resisted him more and more, he turned it all against me. He used different sorts of trauma techniques and basically trauma, drugs, messages, post-hypnotic suggestions and then more trauma. Basically what he wanted was to get me to self destruct.

Will Snodgrass:

Valerie, how do we know that the CIA was targeting certain children, certain types of children? How did they recruit if in fact that's what they were doing?

Valerie Wolf:

The information I have is that what they were looking for was children who were already traumatized, who were already abused, children who were very intelligent, children who had good memories. What they would do is look in clinics. A lot of the kids were in military families. In Chris's case her father had military connections and he actually started grooming her. You have to understand we are talking Cold War mentality when this started, and we forget about that sometimes. In terms of fighting Communism ... the end justifies the means ... and that kind of thought was available at that time. So there were people who truly thought they were doing something for their country. There were also people who were really sadistic, and people who were pedophiles, that hurt their children. So what they were looking for were kids that were already abused.

Will Snodgrass:

Claudia, what are your earliest recollections of this process? How did the government select you, and what do you remember about it?

Claudia Mullen:

Well I was brought to Tulane University by my mother. I had been abused since the time I was two years old. She was friends with the Chairman of the Board, Mr. Fenner, and she asked for a recommendation of a top psychiatrist in New Orleans, and Dr. Robert G. Heath who was Chairman of the Department at Tulane Medical School was recommended. As a favour, he took me on as a private client. He said he didn't treat children, but as a favour he would make an exception and he said he would treat me for free. My mother signed a consent for anything he would deem necessary, and he came up with a diagnosis of childhood schizphrenia and aberrant behavior so he had something to put down in medical records. What he was doing actually was, he had already agreed to receive I believe something along the lines of $300,000 over so many years for Tulane in exchange for using a whole ward of patients, or subjects, as many as he could get, and conduct experiments on them. He was already involved in research on brain mapping, doing all sorts of brain experiments and he was considered one of the top in his field and so they went to him and asked, and I just happened to get sent there at the age of seven. >From then I kept going back for treatments, I was told. I would not recall what had happened when I was there. Dr. Heath would tell me what had happened. I would go home and the next they needed me, they would call my mother and she would send me back for treatment. I would go over there and the same thing ... I wouldn't remember when I went back home. In between I had no memory.

Will Snodgrass:

Valerie, you had two clients who had come to you in adult life with some very very serious problems. You had some information about programming. Had you at that time put two and two together about these two clients? Did you suspect that they had been part of a government program? What happened?

Valerie Wolf:

Actually when each of them became my client, I had absolutely no idea. The way that I discovered it with Chris was that a couple of months after I got the information, she started showing some of the behaviors that had been described and started the downhill slide that usually led in these kinds of clients to the hospital ... so out of sheer desperation I figured, well this is worth a try ... started some very very careful gentle inquiries, and uncovered ... it was like Whammo ... there it was.

Will Snodgrass:

What did you find? What was displayed to you that led you to believe ...

Valerie Wolf:

Well, basically what she was showing was this really compulsive behavior to hurt herself, really compulsive behavior to kill herself, self distruct kinds of stuff. And it was like a repetitive thing ... and the puzzling thing about it was, Chris really didn't want to die. So why she was doing these kinds of things? So it was like it was something that was separate from her. Plus she had all these years of therapy, and good therapy, before she came to me. Ten years of therapy before she came to me, and she had had good therapy and she had made progress but not to the degree we would expect. So those are the kinds of things that were talked about, and those are the kinds of things that I have come to understand. When you have good therapy and clients aren't making good progress you are missing something ... and when I started making very indirect, non-leading kinds of inquiries, basically what happened was we got into memories of electric shock, memories of codes, things like that, that we started working with. But there had been no mention of her being a government subject and I never brought it up with her although I knew that's what it meant, and we were working it through therapeutically but I had never said a word to her. And a couple of months ago, maybe four or five months ago, after Chris had finished a memory, she asked for a piece of paper and pencil and started writing out "CIA Confidential Memos" and I had never mentioned anything about CIA involvement to her.

As far as Claudia is concerned, she came to me with the same kind of thing where ... she is bright, she is verbal, she was working real hard in therapy, we were working through stuff, and she ended up in the hospital which is unusual for the kinds of things ... I mean, I have years of experience dealing with abuse and these kinds of things. One day ... after about nine months of therapy ... she came in with a piece of paper with words written all over it, and in the middle was "MKULTRA" ... (one of the names of one of the projects associated with the mind control). That's when I knew she was involved. I had also never said anything to her about it.

Will Snodgrass:

Claudia, at the time you brought this document in, did you know what it was or where it came from?

Claudia Mullen:

I had no idea of what it meant. I didn't know what it stood for. It was just something that started coming forward in my memory, and I would get bits and pieces. I would remember the names of doctors and I would say to Valerie, "Have you ever heard of this man? Who is he?" and Valerie would say, "I don't know." I started remembering treatment. It was just bits and pieces. It wasn't like ... I couldn't remember whole weeks at a time ... I couldn't remember. I had always gaps in my childhood ... I couldn't remember gaps of time that were lost. I didn't know why. I came to understand that I was abused by my mother. I assumed that's why I went into treatment was for PTSD, and then eventually I learned I was abused by my mother, but I thought that was the extent of it. I didn't even recall ever being at a University Medical Centre, never remembered going there. Never thought I had been to Washington, D.C. but I had.

Will Snodgrass:

Do both of you now remember going into laboratories or clinics or being involved in immersion therapies, or dark rooms, those kinds of things?

Chris Denicola Ebner:

I remember being in a laboratory in 1966. I was four years old, and I was strapped down on a table, on my back. I was naked, I had electrodes all over my body ... my head, temples, chest, stomach, back, legs. Dr. Greene was there, and there were other children in the room as well. It was a laboratory. At Tennessee University. I remember he had what looked like an overhead projector, it had a red flashing light. He was saying that he was going burn images in my brain and I would do whatever he told me to do, and how the images would go deeper and deeper into my brain. Just consistently repeating the information along with electric shock and he would use the electroshock and then the imagery and then more shock, and drugs to make me drowsy. Sometimes I would pass out ... yes, I do remember that. I remember being in a dark room as well. Actually a lot of the experiments took place in a dark room out in the desert in Tucson, Arizona. Most of the experiments took place there with Dr. Greene.

Will Snodgrass:

People today at the Hearing asked, "where were your parents? how could this happen? how could you be taken out from your home or the place where you lived and brought into this situation ...

Chris Denicola Ebner:

My parents were divorced when I was around four years old. My Mom had no knowledge, but my father, Donald Richard Ebner, was involved in the experiments. With Dr. Greene and he would sneak me out of the house in the middle of the night. I remember feeling drugged in the house and these men coming in and they would sneak me out of the house, and my Mom would be asleep. That's how he gained access to me, and visits, things like that. They did most of the experiments in the middle of the night. He just found his way into the home. My Mom had no knowledge of it at the time. She divorced him because I was afraid of him, and she couldn't figure out what was wrong. He had to be sneaky in order to get a hold of me, and that's how he would do that. He would just ... he got the key from me ... and he would sneak in in the middle of the night, and drag me out, and bring me back before my Mom woke up, and that's when most of the experiments took place. I have talked to my Mom since then, since the memories have surfaced, and she confirms that she absolutely believes that he was capable and did in fact participate in these experiments.

Will Snodgrass:

Was he a member of the U.S. military? (Yes) And do you remember other military people who were coming into your home at that time or that he would associate with, or talk with?

Chris Denicola Ebner:

No. The only person I know that was my Dad, Don Ebner. I can tell you names of memos that I saw with people from ... the military and Internal Affairs ... memos that I saw in Dr. Greene's office. Off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you the other military names.

Will Snodgrass:

Claudia, do you remember Dr. Greene?

Claudia Mullen:

Very well. The first time I met him was, from my understanding now, most of the time he kept himself disguised and used different names depending on what part of the country he was in. At Tulane, he saw no reason to do that I guess, and he would wear a white coat just like any other doctor, and he would wear a name tag, Dr. L. Wilson Greene. But he didn't like anyone calling him anything but "Doctor". He didn't even like being called Dr. Greene. I knew him from the years 1957 until about five years before he died in 1988.

Will Snodgrass:

So Dr. Greene was operating at Tulane University and also at Kansas?

Valerie Wolf:

And at Tucson. Dr. Greene has been reported -- he is probably the most consistent figure or doctor that's been reported by almost everybody. He went under the names of Dr. Green, Dr. Greenbaum, Greentree, Greenberg. But always with the Green in his name. He travelled throughout the country, training people, doing consultation and also doing stuff on his own, I think, as Chris experienced.

Chris Denicola Ebner:

He used disguise with me as well. I never saw him without a surgical mask, usually something on his head, and all I ever saw was a little bit of the black rimmed glasses and whatever. He was just a sadistic, evil man, and he hated me because I would not comply with what he wanted me to do.

Will Snodgrass:

We have memories that have surfaced here at some point in time. Did both of you, or either of you, recall these memories before you got into therapy? Were there some memories at all of what had happened to you?

Claudia Mullen:

Well, there would be times in my life over the years ... I guess the last time I was actually involved in the projects was 1983. After that I was supposed to be monitored by a family doctor who was a family friend who was to keep track and make sure I didn't get any memory back. And if I was, he was to report it to them, to Dr. Greene. I had started to get somatic symptoms. I would end up in the hospital and they couldn't find any reason for the illness. They would call in this Dr. Brown and he would notify the other doctors and they would make sure my amnesia was reinforced.

Will Snodgrass:

Valerie what is the significance of these organic symptoms that presented?

Valerie Wolf:

Basically what you have to understand is how trauma memories are encoded and that is sort of a technical term for how memories are remembered. There has been a lot of contraversy lately about research on memory. There has been a lot of research done on memory, and what they are finding is a lot of the information that is in the public is about normal memory. One of the things that those of us who work with traumatic memory have found is that it is very different, even as to where it is stored in the brain. Regular memories are stored in the part of the brain called the hippocampus.

Trauma memories - I saw a recent article - are stored in a more primitive part of the brain called the amygdala. Basically what happens is if there is information to remember, and there is pain associated with the information, then the two get stored together in the brain. In order to remember the information, you also have to remember the pain. What happens with these clients is that there was so much pain from the electric shock, from the other things they did, or drug effects - because sometimes you get drug effect or very drugged kind of memory - but in terms of the physical pain - Claudia for example. In order for her to "remember", the first thing she is going to remember is the pain ... wherever it was in her body. It is stored with the information. If you intervene and reinforce the amnesia, the pain before the information comes, you don't remember the information. In order for them to remember, they have to go through the pain first and then the information comes.

Will Snodgrass:

So is it fair to say then that the U.S. government was using the barrier of pain as a barrier to memory?

Valerie Wolf:

Absolutely. And it is difficult, hard work. These two people are extremely courageous. They come in and they know that when they are working, they are going to be in a great deal of pain and they are willing to go through it, because they want to be free. And I want to say the purpose of treatment here is not to uncover memories. The purpose of treatment here is to undo the messages they were given and there were a lot of them. I have been a lot of thinking lately as to why some people have to remember and some people don't ... even though they have both been traumatized. And what I realize is when someone is traumatized, if the perpetrator is silent - when someone is traumatized, they basically go into a trance - you have to get away from it somehow so you separate from yourself and you go into trance. If the perpetrator is silent, then nothing much really gets in. Then those clients where the messages are separate from the actual trauma really don't have to remember the trauma. But those clients where the messages are part of the trauma have to remember the trauma. The point of therapy is to get to the context, to get to the conclusions that people drew about themselves and the world from the trauma. To get to the things were said to them. The things that were said to the mind control subjects in the experimentation were deliberately said to undermine their personalities, to make them self destructive, to make them not remember. That's what we want to get to. It so happens we have the memories and I try to validate and verify where I can, but again the thing is to restore their functioning.

Will Snodgrass:

How many children do we believe were taken into these government programs for these purposes?

Valerie Wolf:

Honestly, we really don't know, but just considering the numbers of people who are coming forward, our guess is thousands.

Will Snodgrass:

Are they remembering the rooms, electrodes, these kinds of things?

Valerie Wolf:

The memories are extremely consistent. In preparation for my testimony I sort of talked with a few people, word got out and almost 40 therapists called me from all over the country - from California to New York - all over the country giving me information and supplying back up documentation, statements from clients all over the country. It is remarkably consistent with the report. And these people don't know each other. They haven't talked with each other. For example, I am the only one in my area, that I am aware of, doing this work. I have talked to one other person, but I haven't really talked to other people nor have they talked to other people. So, were are not sharing the information, we are hearing this stuff independently.

Will Snodgrass:

Chris, how did your memories start to come out and what can you tell us about your experience? In other words, you have told us about the rooms, about Dr. Greene. How did you start to remember these things, and in detail? In a synopsis, as much as you can share with us, what happened to you?

Chris Denicola Ebner:

I had no memory of anything until I was about 22 years old and that's when I started to remember my Dad sexually abusing me. Then moving in - it seems that I first started to uncover the easier to handle memories. The sex abuse memories were easier to handle than the mind control electrodes and all of that kind of thing - the Kansas City thing I was telling you about when I was four years old - that didn't come until later. I didn't remember that until maybe three months ago. I started to remember the sexual abuse and then it went into remembering that I had memories of just being tortured and actually, a lot of pain, Dr. Greene inflicting a lot of pain and a lot of different experiments. It's hard to wrap it all up in a nice little ball for you ...

Will Snodgrass:

Can you describe some of the things Dr. Greene did to you? You mentioned a doll today.

Chris Denicola Ebner:

He performed a radiation experiment on me in the black room. It was approximately 1975. I was strapped down on my back, naked, and I had electrodes all over my body and there was a machine, and parts of it looked like an xray machine you might see in a dental office and he put three across my stomach and pointing at my vagina and he told me I had the choice of either going outside and killing a doll, which could have been a child, or I could not do that and be a murderer as far as killing unborn children - I would never be able to have children. He was trying to get me to go kill the doll, so to speak, because he was training me to be a spy assassin and I refused. I didn't want to have any part of killing anything, a doll or a thing. So I refused, and my father was involved with this experiment and they went around a corner and they flipped on a switch. I heard a drone sound as the machine started up and then a buzzing sound, and I felt pain throughout my body all three times. Then they - it was because of the electric shock - they were shocking me at the same time they were doing the radiation - they came back out and said that I was a worthless, insignificant bitch, and that I was a murderer, and instilled all of these negative messages along with more electric shock. After the radiation I felt nauseated and threw up, and Dr. Greene got mad about that and started shocking me and after that he gave me a shot, and next thing I knew I was out in the desert strapped down on a table with more intensive electric shock to the point where I would pass out, and continuing with those messages. Knowing that I was a good person, to think that I was insignificant, that I was worthless, that I was a murderer would be devastating to me. Basically he wanted me to commit suicide because I wouldn't do what he wanted me to do. I fought him all the way.

Will Snodgrass:

Claudia, do you remember your experiences?

Claudia Mullen:

Oh yes. There are so many. Like I said, I was tested at Tulane and at several other places outside of New Orleans, and then once they decided I could become part of the projects - and they had a series of projects, the Umbrella project, and the Bluebird which became Artichoke and then came MKULTRA and each one on down the line. Each one had a different purpose. I was taken on train trips, planes - small planes to different military bases. I was taken to places out in the woods - I guess Tulane was the worst where I would receive intensive electric shock, isolation for days, sleep deprivation where they would attach electrodes to me and if I started to fall asleep, they would shock me - enough to wake me up. You couldn't sleep for days. The messages would start - "your mother doesn't love you, she left you here, your mother doesn't want you, you are too much trouble for her, you are a very evil child, you want to hurt people, you want to entice men." My adoptive father was very ill and he died when I was very young, so I was taught to take to older men and encouraged to become friendly with older men and eventually, when I was old enough, I was sent out into what they called the operational field and I would be photographed with government and agency officials (CIA), doctors who were consulted, heads of universities and private foundations - all under the chance that if the government funds started dwindling they wanted to be able to blackmail or coerce the men into making sure the projects continued. That was the ultimate goal. The projects had to continue at all costs. They had to train a certain amount of young females to go around and I was sent to a camp in Maryland for three weeks when I was nine years old, and that was my first training on how to sexually please men. I was through a training course, like a seminar. There were children of all ages - even younger than myself. Teenagers, young adult girls there. We were all assigned someone there, and at the end of three weeks, we were taught. They decided it was a success. It was a CIA project. It was called Imaginative Research. They had to give a name to it that they could release and document because they couldn't really put down what it really was. It came under the heading MKULTRA, project 74, and I was subject #3. I remember we were given a number. We were allowed to choose a name and after the three weeks I was sent home. For the next few years they worked on making sure I was amnesia controlled, making sure the amnesia barriers were in place so that if something should ever happen to me and the memories should ever start coming back, the pain would come first. I would seek help from the doctors who I was taught were the only people who could help me, the "good doctors". I was taught that doctors were the answer to everything. I had no reason to disbelieve that because every time I was sent home, I was told you are a good girl, you are cured, you are going to be just fine, you are going to grow up and have a lot of kids. I didn't even realize that they had taken that away from me. I didn't know I couldn't even bear children.

Will Snodgrass:

How did they do that?

Claudia Mullen:

Mainly by inserting things, electric shock, some of the testing they did. They just produced enough scar tissue that they blocked my fallopian tubes and I can't bear children.

Will Snodgrass:

You were tortured. (Yes) How many times?

Claudia Mullen: (Laughter from Claudia, Chris, Valerie about the question)

Uh ... from 1957 to 1983. I mean sometimes it would be for a week at a time. Sometimes it would be overnight. Sometimes it would be once a month. It just depended. They had to of course adapt to my school schedule. I went to a private Catholic girls' school, and I was taken out of school for periods of time. My mother would tell them I had to go visit relatives, or my father was very sick and I wanted to spend time with him ... my father was terminal. They had no reason to question my mother's motives. My mother was told by the doctors that I just needed to come back for some treatment. It would always coincide with times when the men could get away -- holidays. The CIA kept hotel rooms in two of the best hotels in New Orleans, and year around, they kept a suite. It was unique in that it had two bathrooms and one bathroom was where they kept the hidden cameras and I was actually shown the hidden cameras by three men who handled that part of it. They called him Captain George White - he was formerly a doctor. He used to be in the narcotics squad in California and then he became a doctor, and joined the CIA. And then there were two other men who worked with him. They would put me with the subjects who would be filmed (the men) and then when the men would come into town -- I am talking about local politicians, government officials -- anybody who they needed to possibly get something on, keep on file for future reference -- should they need to coerce this person into supporting the projects. Senators, congressmen, anything like that -- if they were in town, they were given this room. They had no reason to think there was anything strange about the room. It didn't look any different than any other room -- it was just one of the better suites in the two hotels. I was shown how the cameras were set up behind mirrors -- behind the mirrors which are in every hotel room, behind the dresser. They would sit there and they would film it and later on they would show me the films. And they would say, you don't want anyone to see this now do you? And that was one way of getting me to want to forget.

Will Snodgrass:

You mentioned the CIA -- you heard the word CIA again and again. From your memory, CIA type documents come up. You were listening as a child, and you heard things, and you saw things.

Claudia Mullen:

They started when I was very young like I said, and they knew that they would be able to produce this amnesia. They were so certain that the amnesia would hold for as long as they wanted it to, that they had no reason to hid anything from me, plus they considered me too young to understand what they they are talking about. You've got to understand, it is very important, to keep the child you are working with isolated from anyone else. So that no one asks them any questions. So that they learn to trust just the doctors, scientists, researchers, the consultants. They have to learn to trust these people. These are the doctors that are helping them. But you can't be around even nurses in a hospital. They would always keep me very close by and they would put me on a sofa and give me a blanket and say, "take a nap" and give me something to make me sleep. And I was told "this is very important to the President, he would prefer you not to look at the faces". I thought that the President knew about all this. I thought I was helping my country. I was told "this is to help stop Communism" "we need to do something to help stop Communism".

Will Snodgrass:

You were how old?

Claudia Mullen:

When I was first told this I when I was nine and I went to the Deep Creek Cabins in Maryland. That's when I was taught I was going to be part of this project, I had been accepted into this project, that I had been accepted into this project that would help the government stop Communism. At that time the Cold War was on, and it was very important. We were even taught in schools about Communists. They had reason to think they had to hide anything from me, so they would have conversations about the projects, about so-and-so - what he's working on, where he is, where he is from, they would call each other by name. They would have suitcases with their nametags on them, briefcases. I met with Richard Helms who was Deputy Director of the CIA for a long time. I met with him lots of times. I mean I got to know them all on a first-name basis. They would say, "call me Uncle". Of course, every now and then they would expect "a favour" but then you would be assured they were not being filmed. Somehow they managed to film almost everything except Dr. Martin Orne - he's the only one who never got on film.

Will Snodgrass:

We're talking about sexual intercourse here, with very young women?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes.

Will Snodgrass:

How young?

Claudia Mullen:

Well there were children younger than myself, as young as five years old.

Will Snodgrass:

Sexual intercourse?

Claudia Mullen:

Actually it was anal intercourse until you got to a certain age. Until you got sent out into the field as, you know, an operative -- to target these officials and get them on film. The idea being they wouldn't want a child who had been abused over a long period of time. They would want a child who was innocent and pure, and this was your first time. You were taught other ways to please men -- anal intercourse, oral sex, everything else.

Will Snodgrass:

>From memory do you remember the names of some of these projects you may have seen written or heard, spoken?

Claudia Mullen:

Well, under the Umbrella Folder, the first one was Artichoke which could produce amnesia and also to develop polygraph techniques. That's where Dr. Martin Orne came in. He was supposed to be an expert on polygraph. He worked with the Technical Science Division of Edgewood Arsenal as did Dr. L. Wilson Greene. There was MKDELTA, MKNAOMI which was germ warfare. They were laughing about how they would drop canisters of toxins -- they had no idea what effect it was going to have -- they would just wait five or ten years and see what the effects on this neighbourhood was -- a poor neighbourhood. I was told about using retarded children in East New Orleans and exposing them to large doses of massive radiation and they saw no reason not to use them because they were already retarded, they just wanted to see what anamolies would develop over the years.

Will Snodgrass:

You were allowed to testify today, I assume, because there was radiation involved. Can you tell us a little bit about your experiences with radiation?

Claudia Mullen:

Well I was exposed to not as much as a lot [of people]. I was exposed to a lot of x-rays because I was given physicals quite often to make sure I was kept healthy. They didn't want me to ever bear children, they wanted to make sure I would become sterile so they exposed me to radiation for that purpose I believe. Also to scare me. They never protected me in any way, they never covered me with any kind of lead apron or anything. But mainly I overheard about the large doses of radiation that were exposed to masses of people. I wasn't involved in that, I just overheard conversations. I received small doses of radiation. I was fortunate in that way.

Will Snodgrass:

Chris, today you talked about being in a cage and escaping and some of the documents that you saw?

Chris Denicola Ebner:

Yes. That took place between 1972 and 1976 and basically Dr. Greene had taught me many tecqhniques as to how to be a spy, and I didn't want to have anything to do with them and I was angry and they would put me in a cage after traumatizing me in some form or another. There were times when they careless during this period of time, and whenever physically possible I snuck into Dr. Greene's office and looked at files. These files contained project, sub-project, subject and experiment names for the CIA. I saw all of these different files at first, and they were all coded with different colour -- a purple sticker, something -- an orange colour. Some were on radiation. The one that I saw on radiation I opened it, and I had a photographic memory and remembered exactly what was written -- subject name, code number and then the names and some of the code numbers, experiment names, code numbers, and some of those names. I also remembered seeing memos to -- a subject name, code number, CIA classified, then a 6 digit number -- either to Frank Harris, Internal Affairs; from Trenton Cox, an alias that Dr. Greene used; also it would always say "confidential information" on it. Then there would be the code number again, the experiment name, and then subject, explanation, either successful or unsuccessful: and a brief summary of their findings on that subject in that particular experiment. The project, sub-project, subject and experiment names that I remembered, the memos - the CIA memos that I saw and had written out by memory, have not been verified at this point in time. They just recently surfaced within the last three months. So, I cannot say as would Claudia if the MKULTRA is verified. The names I have seen, and all the information that I have written out, typed out to give to the Committee to the Presidential Hearing today -- none of that has been verified by Alan Scheflin at this point. He hasn't had a chance to research it; however, he has been able to verify that the format and some of the terminology and some of the names such as Robert Levine, one of the people who was on one of the memos, he could verify the format -- he could verify that what I was remembering as far as memos -- maybe some of the project names -- but I don't know.

Claudia Mullen:

The project names had to change from time to time, you've got to understand. They couldn't keep the same project names because they had to get funding from different sources. The funding couldn't continue from the same source for any length of time. The government would only sponsor it until 1963 and then the President put a halt to it supposedly, so they started getting it from other sources, and then they would change the project names. They were constantly changing - there was Project OFTEN, Project CHATTER -- that was one of the early ones with a Dr. Went who was head of that, and that was to get interrogation techniques to get captured soldiers, POW'S to talk. The list went on and on -- I overheard so many names and sub-project numbers -- I remember the numbers. The ones having to do with sex had low numbers -- project #2, #3, #7, #12 -- they were mainly under Dr. James Hamilton. He was the head of those. He was one of the consultants. He didn't work at the CIA. He was a consultant to the CIA.

Chris Denicola Ebner:

And with me actually Dr. Greene started to go -- he really couldn't do it in the laboratories anymore as much -- so he went into kind of criminal type sex rings -- that's where he continued his experiments. That was more of his setting.

Will Snodgrass:

You mentioned Tucson earlier today and you describe drives that you took from one place to another. Would you talk about that a bit?

Chris Denicola Ebner:

Up until two and a half years ago (I am 32 years old now) so up until I was about 29 I would get calls from time to time and I would not remember the phone call. All I knew is that I would be driving to Tucson, Arizona from Calfifornia where I was living at the time. I didn't know why, my adrenalin was pumping, "I had to get there, I had to get there". That's all I knew is that I had to "get there". On one particular occasion I was supposed to arrive at a certain hotel at a certain day in time. I was able to somehow break it and turn around and drive home before I got there to the hotel. Yes, they monitored me up until that time.

Will Snodgrass:

Valerie, what are they doing?

Valerie Wolf:

Basically this is being reported across the country. There is a certain segment of these clients that were being followed or monitored. One of the things that they knew is that eventually the amnesia would break down and that they would need to do periodic check-ups and periodic reinforcements of the amnesia. So the people they had worked particularly hard with I think they assigned either relatives or family friends or people who were associated with the project but not really on the payroll of the CIA or the Army to monitor them. So if they showed any signs of having body memories that we talked about before, the pain or anything like that, then they could move in and reinforce the amnesia. I think one of the reasons that we are hearing more about this now and why there was so much interest in it two and a half years ago, is because it's been a long time, and I think the amnesia is breaking down.

Will Snodgrass:

The viewers are going to ask one question: WHY? Why would the U.S. government do that. Do you have an answer in your own mind?

Claudia Mullen:

Well, they thought, at first, that they had good intentions. They thought it was the best way to handle the Cold War. Dr. Greene himself said that he could come up with war without using guns, without using any kind of ... I mean, he worked at the Edgewood Arsenal and he wanted war without death. So he said contol the mind, control the behavior, and you've got war without death.

Chris Denicola Ebner:

I don't believe that fit with his personality, do you understand what I am saying? He really had an ulterior motive -- he was a very arrogant, cruel man to be able to do these things. And to feel power from doing this to people. He was into power.

Claudia Mullen:

That was probably to make him sound like was a wonderful man, a "scientist" [war without death] ... I believe like Chris does ... he was just a sadistic, cruel hearted man who enjoyed torturing children.

Valerie Wolf:

I think the other element here, and if we listen carefully to what they have said, is a lot of this was done for the personal gratification of the people involved. Sexual gratification, sadistic gratification, I think they had "fun". That's putting it very crudely but I think that's another reason it got continued as long as it did..


You have been listening to an interview by Will Snodgrass with Valerie Wolf, Claudia Mullen and Chris Denicola Ebner done the day just after they gave testimony about the Mind Control Experimentation on Children at the Presidential Human Radiation Experiment Hearings on March 15, 1995. You also heard them give accounts of the National Security Establishment being able, through mind control, to coerce prominent officials by sexually blackmailing them using children.

Wayne Morris, INERNATIONAL CONNECTION, CKLN 88.l Toronto Ontario)

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln05.htm

CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 7


Cluadia Mullen
Presentation & Interview


Back to CKLN Series Table of Contents
   

From the Ryerson CKLN FM (88.1 in Toronto) Mind Control Series
Producer:  Wayne Morris


Contents

Introduction
Claudia Mullen - Presentation at the Believe the Children Conference
Claudia Mullen - Interview with Wayne Morris
Closing Comments


Introduction

Wayne Morris:

Good morning. You have tuned into the International Connections for another Sunday. We are continuing on with our series on mind control and this week we are going to be featuring a presentation done by Claudia Mullen at the recent Believe the Children Conference in Chicago in April of 1997, where she describes her growing up in an atmosphere of an abusive mother and her mother involving her in mind control experiments at Tulane University in New Orleans. Claudia Mullen also gave testimony about mind control to the Presidential Advisory Committee on Human Radiation experiments in March of 1995. You will hear her refer to Multiple Personality Disorder, or Dissociative Identity Disorder which is the new term for Multiple Personality and we have heard in previous shows how severe trauma can cause dissociation or multiple personalities in some children, and how multiple personalities have been used by the CIA to create programmed agents for government intelligence and the military. The second half of this hour, we will be starting an interview I did with Claudia and that will continue on for the next two weeks after. You are listening to 88.l CKLN.

Contents


Presentation at the Believe the Children Conference

Claudia Mullen:

Hello and thank you for coming this afternoon. You will pardon me if I am a little bit nervous, but ... I see some friendly faces out there so that makes it better. Let's see if I can figure out how to turn this on. Can you all read that? It says, "It is 1953. How much is a child's mind worth?" If you picture this with me - this little girl - she is not quite three years old. She has been adopted when she was two and a half years old. She's been in an orphanage til then, from the time she was born. They called them infant asylums back then. She was adopted this prominent, wealthy family in New Orleans and she has been preparing for this picture for about three weeks now, and the way she prepared is ... her "Monster Mom" (that's what she calls the Mommy who adopted her) ... Monster Mom has been letting her go outside every day and play in the sandbox completely naked, so she gets "brown as a berry" all over and her towhead gets even blonder. She is not really sure why this is important, but she is going to get her picture taken. So the day has come. Monster Mom puts on her little sundress and her tennis shoes and the charm bracelet her godmother gave her and she goes outside in the backyard and there is a strange man out there in the backyard, with a camera.

The little girl is very, very nervous (just like me) because, see, everything in her life has to be completely controlled. Everything has to be according to how her mother wants it to be, otherwise there are serious repercussions. She gets hurt real bad. Plus Monster Mom likes to do yucky things to her that she doesn't really understand but it's all part of life. Actually by the time she was about twenty months old she lived in the orphanage asylum - she started to have imaginary friends. They talked to her, comforted her and now she has a few more imaginary friends who sometimes come out when Mommy does these yucky things, or she gets punished for spilling her milk or not washing her hands. Mommy says "now you be a good girl, and don't make Mommy mad because you know what will happen. You will go back to the orphan asylum." She has always been told that's what will happen if she's bad. Mommy can always hold that over her head, and she does until she's a teenager and her Mommy dies.

Anyhow, she gets ready for the picture and already she's completely controlled, and she stands there, ready to smile because Mommy says "smile for the man" and she tips her head like she always does and she smiles, and all of a sudden the little strap on her sundress falls down and she doesn't know what she's going to do because this means Monster Mom is going to get really really mad because she didn't want this happening. Instead, something really strange happens. Mommy comes up and looks at her, and says "perfect", and pulls the strap down a little bit more. Just like that she says, "okay take a picture. Smile." And she smiles. The reason Mommy wanted to take a picture was to send it to all her society friends that she wants to be in with, because she is what you might call a social climber. The little girl doesn't realize, until years later, what Mommy was really doing. She was advertising her daughter that she had adopted. This wonderful thing that she had done for this little girl, and she was basically, I guess you could say auctioning her, advertising her. Pretty soon after the picture had gone out, the little girl started having to spend the night at people's houses - people that were real rich and lived on St. Charles Avenue and belonged to all the best carnival crews, came to parties at their house. But they didn't have any children. Still the little girl had to spend the night at their houses and let the daddy over there do what he wanted, and she couldn't complain because you had to do what grownups told you. That's just the way life was. There wasn't any such thing as "no" or "I don't want to" or "ooh that's yucky ... that makes me feel bad". So this is what life is pretty much like.

Monster Mom finally gets what she really wants and that's to be good friends with the "most prominent society man" in the city of New Orleans because he just happens to be Captain of the most exclusive carnival crew, "Rex". If anybody has been in Mardi Gras, you know what Rex is. Monster Mom has now become good friends with Mr. Fenner who is this rich society man and the little girl is starting to spend a lot of time with Mr. Fenner and some of his friends, and pretty soon she starts going to the camp that Mr. Fenner runs all year long across the lake in Covington, Louisiana and it's at one of his summer homes, and there are other little boys and girls there and they do strange things and men come over and they have parties at night and they pass around the little girls and boys just like they were appetisers at a party. Except for the very first Christmas when she was adopted and when she was eleven years old, she doesn't ever spend Christmas at home again, or her birthday. Both times she is always over at the camp. Easter, Hallowe'en and right up to before school starts in August. Nobody ever asks, "why isn't she ever home for Christmas? Where is she?" Her big sister who is five years older than her, and is not adopted, and doesn't have to go to camp, never dares to ask "why isn't my little sister home for Christmas? Why didn't she get any Christmas presents?" Because she has to be at camp, but nobody asks, not even her adopted daddy. Now she has lots of daddies and uncles. Now the little girl is really being controlled, her mind, her body because basically the way her life is, she does what the grownups tell her and she's a good girl and it doesn't hurt too much. It might hurt a little, or it might hurt a lot at times, but then it's over with, and that's the way life is until she's in second grade. She goes to this exclusive all girls Catholic school which she was very lucky to get into. Before that she went to pre-school at Tulane University which just happens to be one of the most prestigious universities in the South and where Mr. Fenner, Mommy's society friend, is Chairman of the Board and he is also very good friends with Dr. Robert Heath, who is the head of the Neuropsychiatric Department at Tulane and who happens to be good friends with people who work for the government, with the President and for something called the CIA. She has no idea what that means.

By the time she is in second grade, she is told she is being tested, her personality, her memory. She is told she has a very good memory - they didn't even know how good her memory was because actually one of her little imaginary friends had a camera in her hair and she took pictures and she recorded everything that everybody that she had to be with, everybody that she had to be nice to, everybody that tested her. Anyhow, she is told she is being tested to see if she can go away to this camp, and she goes "oh no, camp" but this sounds like a really nice camp because it is all the way in the mountains, and it is far away from home, away from Monster Mom, away from Mr. Fenner's camp, and she might be going there if she passed her tests. Some of the tests are ... well there are doctors who come from all over the country to test her. They do some pretty horrible things to her and they want to test her for pain, and like I said, memory, personality and also to see who she gets along with the best. It turns out she gets along with older men, "daddies" or "uncles". That's who she responded to the best. So she's told, :well you've been accepted to this camp".

She goes away the next summer for three weeks, in August, to a place called Deep Creek Lodge in Maryland. She takes the train with a bunch of strangers that she doesn't know and there are other children on the train but she happens to be the youngest one so they want her to sleep in the club cars where they stayed up all night drinking and talking about something called "projects" and doctors and "deputy directors" and people like that. She's supposed to be asleep but really the little girl inside of her with the camera in her head is taking down everything that she hears. So she gets to this camp. It really is the nicest three weeks of her entire life so far because nobody really hurts her there, she doesn't get any shots except for antibiotic she is told so she doesn't get any infection. She doesn't get any electricity in her head, nothing that bruises her and the best part is she got to pick a daddy to be with during the three weeks and the daddy was going to teach her something very important and this was for her country and she was doing the President of the United States a big favour and helping to stop Communism. That's what this is all about and she feels special, very important. And so she does her best. She gets to pick this man ... they match them together. There are other children there ... there's girls even younger than her ... boys, can't forget the boys ... teenagers and a few young women, but mostly children ... and they all get paired up with an adult and spend the three weeks training.

What training means is that every day, Uncle Otto (that's what this man calls himself) he's a doctor, he's from Kansas ... other than that she doesn't know anything about him except that he is very nice to her. She is going to ask if she can go home with him afterwards. They let her pick a name because, see when she goes to Tulane to get all these tests and treatment -- oh yeah, she was told she behaved badly at home because she wet her bed and she used to cry a lot and sometimes she touched herself where she wasn't supposed to. She did these "abnormal" things so her mother had brought her to Tulane - that's how they got her into Tulane, was to say she had childhood schizophrenia and aberrant behavior, whatever that means. Anyhow - she spent three weeks and basically they went swimming, no clothes, they didn't wear clothes hardly at all. She ate every meal with this man, slept every night with him, and during the day he taught her basically what he said was, "how to please daddies". It was kind of yucky and she didn't really like it, but at least it didn't hurt, it didn't make her bleed, so that made her happy. The only bad part was that at the end of the three weeks, she had passed, they told her she did a very good job - oh - and every evening they would watch these movies - the little girl doesn't like to see herself in movies because she never has any clothes on, always has these daddies or uncles who are doing things to her in the movies. Sometimes there were other children - boys, girls, animals, you name it. Every evening Uncle Otto and little Ava (she named herself after Ava Gardner because she loved movie stars) they would watch these movies and see how well she did. And what she was supposed to do, besides pleasing the daddies was she was told she had to do something called coercing which meant make them talk about themselves. Make them tell you about their fancy homes, how many children they have, how much money their wives spent shopping, and sure enough these different daddies would come in from out of town when she wasn't with Uncle Otto and they would talk about themselves, and some of them even said "you're about the same age as my little girl". Years later when the little girl would start to remember she would be very sad because she would think "well, those little girls at home, they were probably glad that daddy was away". Anyhow, she finishes her three weeks, and they throw a party to celebrate that the "project" was a success. It was called "Sensitive Research" and it came under something called an MKULTRA. On the last night a lot of people flew in from out of town on little itty bitty planes, very rich men, people that worked with the President of the United States, people in uniforms, and they all got drunk, and once again, the little girl got passed around like she was an hors d'oeuvre. It was a terrible night and it lasted forever and at the end of it she should have been in the hospital, but she wasn't. She was on the train back to New Orleans and she was pretty well - she should have been in intensive care actually - they sent her home and she had to go to Tulane Hospital and she stayed there while she recovered and then it was over and she never went back to that camp. Because she learned what she was supposed to learn and this was what she was supposed to do. This was going to be her job to help her country.

The funny thing was though, this went on for years and when she got home from her "treatments" at Tulane and sometimes treatments meant she took trips to places where there were airplanes and military people in uniforms, had wings on their jackets. When she came home, she couldn't remember what happened at the hospital. She knew she went somewhere because she had this thing called schizophrenia which you don't talk about because you don't want anyone to know "my child sees a psychiatrist" - that would be horrible. That was another big secret she had to keep. She had a lot of secrets she had to keep. She doesn't really like doing that, but it's part of life. Doesn't every little girl keep secrets? Doesn't every little girl have to please daddies and uncles? Doesn't every little girl have monsters in her life? She thought so. She also thought everybody had imaginary friends inside of them that had different names, and looked different, even had different hair than her, some were strong, some were littler than her. She thought everybody had these things, she didn't know any different. The strange thing was though she never remembered, she could never remember and that's because they would put what they said was electricity in her head and that hurt. It would always give her bad headaches and when she got home her mother would give her this liquid medicine they had given her to make her sleepy. So that's how they made her forget. Supposedly she was supposed to forget forever, but she was told that since doctors were next to god, she was always supposed to go back to the doctors if she started having headaches or nightmares, and sometimes she would have horrible nightmares. She would walk in her sleep. Monster Mom would call the doctors and say "she's doing something again, I can't control her". She stays in a crib until she is eight years old to try and keep her from wandering around the house at night and she is still wetting the bed, uses a bottle sometimes when her Mom wants to make her feel ashamed of herself. When she goes to school she has to wear little boys undershirts and these things called leggings that look like pantyhose, flesh colored, they hid the bruises and the marks. The kids just knew that she wore these funny clothes and they made fun of her. That was part of life too. Being the odd one. Being different than other kids. At least she was special. That's what the doctors and soldiers always told her.

Life pretty much goes on only the older she gets, the worse it gets and the harder it is to please the daddies. By the time she is 13, her adopted daddy who never did anything to stop it, and she is pretty sure didn't really know what was going on but never really asked, and he was scared to death of his own wife - he dies, and she feels very bad about that and they tell her it was her fault that he died. It was just another way to control her. I forgot to tell you about the visit before she went away to camp - in the mountains - the man, Mr. Fenner, the Chairman of the Board at Tulane - who she used to call "The Magister" when she went across the lake to his camp - she couldn't call him Mr. Fenner. They all wore masks and costumes and they didn't know who each other was supposedly, and the children weren't supposed to know who they were. They wore Mardis Gras costumes and that wasn't strange because, hey everybody knows about Mardis Gras it just didn't seem to be Mardis Gras time. He had paid a visit to Monster Mom one day and right in front of the little girl he says words like, "we need to toughen her up - pain - water - punishment - locking her in a closet - dark - need to toughen her up". That's all she can remember. After that Monster Mom got really bad and punished her. Life is pretty bad, but then again she didn't have to really go through all of this because she had imaginary friends to help her and she got to go away - that's what she called it, "going away" and hiding in her safe place.

By the time she was sixteen, Monster Mom dies, finally. Everybody goes "oh poor thing, losing your mother when you are only 16" and she's so happy inside but she has to look sad and cry. And it doesn't mean she still doesn't have to go for treatments or go to the hotel rooms that these people who work for the government and for the president. These keep these two rooms at these fancy hotels in New Orleans and she had been trained when she was 9 years old to please these daddies ... so she would go in the hotel room and spend the night or a couple of hours with them ... and she was even showed by Captain White, who wore a gun and came from California ... she was shown how they had two bathrooms in the room. One bathroom was hidden and there was a camera behind the mirror and it always opposite was across from the bed. And the room didn't look any different than any other room except it was a fancy room and some people from out of town and politicians - just about anybody you could think of - she would have to stay with them and she had to do a good job, and she had to get them to talk about themselves, and she had to make sure that they looked in the mirror. "The Martini Man" - that's what she called the man who took the pictures -

This goes on until she graduates from high school and when she goes to pick her college, she tries to get as far away from New Orleans as she can. She doesn't even know why, she just knows I've got to get out of here, and she goes to college, and it got better, and she only had to see the doctors and the daddies now and then, it wasn't as often. Her Monster Mom wasn't there so a lot of times she would just run away and hide - take the car and go some place and go to a friend's place or something and hide out - but she still had to go back and mainly do her job, being in the movies with the men, and getting them to talk about themselves, because it was "ammunition" to use against them if they ran out of money. All she knew was Tulane needed a lot of money and this was how they kept the money coming in. They had these films that went to somebody in Virginia and they kept them and if the people wouldn't give any more money for the "projects" then I guess they would tell them, well we have this film.

Imagine this little girl 40 years later, walking into this exclusive hotel called The Madison, in Washington, D.C. only she's all grown up now only she doesn't have any children, they made sure she couldn't have kids so they wouldn't have to bother with her getting pregnant. She walks in and she is just one of the crowd, one of the audience, but she feels like scared, nervous, like I am. She goes in but when she leaves the room, her life is never the same again, because she has been asked to give testimony in front of a presidential committee on radiation.

Contents


Interview with Wayne Morris

Wayne Morris:

I am speaking with Claudia Mullen, a survivor of U.S. government mind control experimentation and operation. Thanks very much for joining us today Claudia.

Claudia Mullen:

You are welcome, and thank you very much for having me on the show.

Wayne Morris:

We heard some of your testimony that was given to the Presidential hearings on radiation experiments in 1995. How did you get involved in testifying at those hearings?

Claudia Mullen:

Well, I'll tell you. It came about because of the information I had given my therapist as the memories started coming back to me, and it was obvious that it was more than just abuse by my mother and even ritual abuse here in New Orleans, but it involved government conspiracy. The information was sent out by my therapist to some experts across the country to be verified, to see if these people did exist, if there were such projects, that I was naming names and I had no idea who these people were, my therapist didn't know who they were. She doesn't do any reading on this type of - any kind of mind control issues - government conspiracies, that type of thing.

Wayne Morris:

She sent your material out to people that have done research into this?

Claudia Mullen:

To people who were doing research specifically on CIA projects. They were sending back, "yes" these people did exist. I was sending information that was not published yet or had only been published under Freedom of Information Act which I had not filed obviously. This information was also sent along to a man named Wally Cummings, who was in charge of obtaining people who could give testimony in the Washington hearings.

Wayne Morris:

Was he part of the Human Radiation committee?

Claudia Mullen:

He wasn't actually part of the committee. It was his job to interview, to find people for the public testimony part. He worked for the Committee. He was interviewing and finding people that had something to say and he interviewed me over the phone and he had heard that I had been giving some information that obviously was valid and had to with radiation, and so he asked me if I would be willing to testify. This was about two weeks before we actually had to testify. I was told that I could speak for ten minutes, and give as much information as I could. I decided to do it. And I went to Washington and testified along with my therapist, and one of her other clients.

Wayne Morris:

What was the connection between the radiation experiments and the mind control experiments that were done to you?

Claudia Mullen:

I had heard a lot about, when I was part of the experiments, they didn't necessarily use a lot of radiation on me other than to take x-rays to keep me healthy, check for damage, broken bones. But I did overhear quite a bit about radiation experiments they were doing, especially in New Orleans, or outside of New Orleans. Obviously it was the same people doing the radiation experiments that were doing experiments on me. So that was the connection.

Wayne Morris:

This was an incredibly brave thing, to go to the Presidential Hearings and give testimony. Were you aware that you were, in effect, breaking the silence for a lot of other survivors of mind control at the time?

Claudia Mullen:

At the time I didn't realize what a step we were taking. It's the type of thing that you just jump in and do without thinking too much about it, because you're afraid if you think too long or too hard about it, you might change your mind. You know it's important, but you're not really sure why it's important at the time. You just know that you need to talk about it and you need to let people know that it did happen. At the time I didn't feel very brave about it, and I didn't realize the repercussions, and what it would mean as far as opening the door for other mind control victims to be able to come forward and talk. I had no idea what it would lead to. I just knew it was important to do. I was being given an opportunity to talk to people in Washington and tell them that these things happened, and they shouldn't have happened. I jumped in and did it?

Wayne Morris:

How did it feel - the actual experience of giving testimony at the Committee?

Claudia Mullen:

Pretty scary. It felt good afterwards. It was overwhelming. They were very nice to us. We felt like we were being looked at under a microscope though, everything you said was being looked at very carefully, torn apart. You were being questioned a lot, but we kind of expected that. Afterwards, it was such a feeling of relief and surprise actually, a scary surprise at the response that we had. I walked into the room and I was just a face, nobody even knew who I was. There were obviously people there from the government. There were CIA people there, military. Pretty frightening. I just kind of walked in the crowd. When I walked out, everybody knew who I was. There was so much support, especially from the other radiation victims. And from the Committee themselves. They were very supportive.

Wayne Morris:

You felt that they had received your information and were taking the information they were hearing seriously?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. I did.

Wayne Morris:

And was there any follow-up on the part of the Committee? What was that follow-up as it pertains to the mind control?

Claudia Mullen:

The reason that I know they actually listened, even though the recommendations were mainly for radiation experiments, that was what they were looking at. I know they listened to us also because part of the recommendations that came out in October of 1995 was that these particular projects be looked into. They were all MKULTRA projects that I had named, and we were able to give as much testimony in writing as we wanted to. We were only allowed to talk for a certain amount of time, but we could hand in as much information as we could give them. I had handed in twenty pages listing project numbers, names, sub-project numbers, subjects, places, people. The project numbers and names that I gave were actually recommended that these files be pulled. The list that I gave was on there. Now, they haven't actually done it yet, and I am told the reason is because they are waiting for the people involved, until everyone has died. To be quite frank, that's what they said.

Wayne Morris:

Who told you this?

Claudia Mullen:

Well, they didn't tell me this of course. Nobody got back to us. I found out actually over the internet. I spoke to one of the experts that had been filing FOIA in my name for the projects that I had named, and he said he was told directly by the CIA that they did not want to start any real investigation on this until all the people had passed away because they felt like the public would react too strongly and the CIA didn't need this right now.

Wayne Morris:

Well, the public would react strongly and rightly so. Was there any press coverage at all after giving testimony, or any press contacting you afterwards?

Claudia Mullen:

I think there was a brief story in the Washington paper but the emphasis was on the radiation and on that testimony. There was coverage on local cable shows ... we did an interview that night for a local public access television station in Montana ... and of course it was all over the internet afterwards. But not much national coverage, no. The emphasis was on radiation.

Wayne Morris:

I understand journalist, John Rapaport, compiled your testimony and that of Chris DeNicola in a book. How soon afterwards did that happen?

Claudia Mullen:

Immediately. He came out with the book within six months. It's called "US mind control experiments on children - they want to know", by John Rapaport. I was contacted by several other people. One from 20/20 - at the time they wanted my therapist and I to appear on the show. My therapist turned it down so I turned it down. A couple of other people - one man from Washington - a columnist I did an interview with. I did an interview with an attorney. So I did some interviews, but that was for local newspapers, I never really saw them. But there were people calling from all over the country. I had left my therapist's number as my number in Washington. These people were coming up and asking for a card and how to contact me. At the time I knew I was taking a risk, but I didn't want to give any personal information, so I gave my therapist's number and address and that's how they contacted me. I did do some interviews over the phone. The BBC too.

Wayne Morris:

Was anything done with that interview?

Claudia Mullen:

They are still working on the complete show they are doing. They said it's going to take several years to finish. Ours is just a small part of it. Jan Klimkowski is the name of the man doing the show.

Wayne Morris:

I wonder if you can describe briefly how you were introduced into these experimental programs?

Claudia Mullen:

I would say to my knowledge I was first introduced in 1958 when I was 8 years old. I had already been adopted at 2 1/2, my adoptive mother had been abusing me since the day she adopted me. She allowed her friends to abuse me. I was sent to a camp where there was mainly a sex ring I guess you could call it ... a bunch of pedophiles who got together on weekends and holidays and passed kids around. These same people apparently let the people from the government who were looking for child subjects know that's where they would look. Sex rings, adoption agencies. I think they had been looking at me long before the time I was 8 years old, but they we were waiting for me to get to a certain age to use me I guess. So I first knew about it when I was 8 and I was told I was to be tested by some people from the government at Tulane University. It was very important. It was to help stop Communism and I vaguely knew what Communism was back then, so I tried to do the best I could. I thought I was doing a good thing.

Wayne Morris:

You mentioned that your mother knew some people at Tulane. What was the connection there?

Claudia Mullen:

My mother knew the Chairman of the Board at Tulane University Medical School, Darlen Fenner. He was in New Orleans society, probably the highest in society you could get. My mother was a real social climber so she pretty much offered me to Darlen Fenner for anything he wanted to use me for. He was the one who ran this camp. It was called the Covington Camp for Boys and Girls. It was actually his summer home, near New Orleans. I was sent over there, and they would dress up in Mardis Gras costumes because we were used to Mardis Gras, and they would do kind of ceremonies ... but it was mainly just to scare us ... the ceremonies.

Wayne Morris:

What kind of ceremonies?

Claudia Mullen:

He was also good friends with Dr. Robert Heath who was head of the neuropsychiatric department at Tulane and I believe Darlen Fenner wanted to get the grant money the CIA was offering if Tulane would allow them to use the place for experiments. Since he alread knew about me, and they were looking for children who were already abused, that's how I got involved I guess.

Wayne Morris:

How long did this abuse and experimentation go on with Tulane University?

Claudia Mullen:

It went on pretty steadily, quite frequently until I graduated from high school in 1968 and then after that it was more intermitten because I was away from home, my mother had died, it was harder to get a hold of me. They still contacted me. I still had to go in and this went on until probably the last time I remember actually being involved in anything to do with the government was 1988, and I was already 38 years old.

Wayne Morris:

So, thirty years ... After this, what were you doing in your life? Were you able to work or were you going to school?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. You see I had developed DID or MPD as a very small child, even before I was adopted because at the agency where I was at the orphanage, there were just so many babies, and so few people to take care of us, I guess I started splitting as a natural process to nurture myself, since there wasn't anybody there to do it for me. I had already started splitting back then - can you repeat the question again?

Wayne Morris:

Were you working after ...

Claudia Mullen:

Right, right. Since I had MPD or DID this allowed me to lead an apparently normal life, go to school. I went to college after high school. I dated. I went into veterinary medicine, became a veterinary technician for 12 1/1 years and pretty much led an apparently normal life until the times when they would get a hold of me, and they would use the multiple personalities - contact one of my personalities that would respond to them and she would go back to Tulane or wherever they wanted me to go. But otherwise I was leading a life pretty much like everybody else, you know. Dated, got married, went to nursing school. I had just graduated from nursing school in 1988 when they used me at some convention they had here in New Orleans.

Wayne Morris:

When did you first realize that you did have DID? Did that manifest itself in different ways apart from the ways they were using you?

Claudia Mullen:

When I was 7 years old that's the first real distinct memory I have that there were "children living inside of me" - imaginary friends I called them. I thought everyone did. These friends looked different than I did. They had names. I named them. Some were stronger than me, some were taller, some were more outgoing, whereas others were very shy little girls. So I was aware these kids were living inside me and I thought everyone did. As I got older I sort of repressed the idea of having imaginary friends. I just sort of forgot about it. When they came out, I had no knowledge they were coming out. In 1992, when something happened to me that actually brought all these memories back, then I was diagnosed with MPD and of course I rejected that right away. I denied it except for the imaginary friends because everybody has those. I was really adamant that I didn't have MPD, but after all, there was no getting around that I did.

Wayne Morris:

Do you have an idea of how many identities were created or you created within yourself?

Claudia Mullen:

Close to one hundred, and all but twenty-three have integrated.

Wayne Morris:

So you still have about twenty-three personalities. Can you tell us about some of the identities and whether they have helped you in some way or ...

Claudia Mullen:

Oh yeah. They have all helped me, that's why they were created, to help me survive. Each identity, each personality is created at a time of trauma. That's the only way they can be created. That's the only way you can split yourself, is during a traumatic incident. That identity comes out in order to do a job for you. In other words, to take pain. If you have to do something that goes completely against your nature, then you create someone to do that for you because obviously you can't do it. If you have to act a certain way and you cna't do it yourself, you create someone to do it. It's not a conscious thing, it's an unconscious process. They are all helpful for me in the sense that they do something that I can't do for myself. I have one that gets very very angry. She would come out at times when I would just get furious at my mom or different people that were hurting me ... she would come out kicking and screaming and would try to bite them. Myself, I couldn't get angry. I was afraid to get angry. That's why I have Leslie - she's the one who gets angry. So they are helping in the sense that they do something that I am not capable of doing. But they cannot go against my inherent nature. In other words, none of them would do anything that I would feel was inherently wrong like to kill somebody, they do things that I am not capable of doing just because I am not capable of doing it, but there's none of them that are bad. They are all good.

Wayne Morris:

What was it that started bringing the memories back?

Claudia Mullen:

In October 1992 something happened that was completely unrelated to this and I am told that a lot of victims of child abuse throughout their lives become victims of crime, violent crime, simply because these perpetrators look for people who look like victims and I became a victim of aggravated rape in my house. I was a nurse, working nights, and I came home in the morning, and there was a man waiting for me, and it was pretty traumatic. I didn't tell anyone at first. I tried to handle it and obviously I couldn't. I became depressed and suicidal. Eventually I called the police. The police recommended me to the therapist that I have now, Valerie Wolf. Mainly because she was an expert witness, and they wanted to use her in the trial against the man who had raped me.

Wayne Morris:

You were going forward and pressing charges at that time?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. And it took 2 1/2 years to go to trial, and during the time I was in therapy, that's when the memories started coming back. I would say probably about six months after the incident happened. These memories started coming that had nothing to do with the rape. Obviously things that had happened when I was a child. At first it was just my mother that I remembered, the way she beat me. Then there were people I remembered from my childhood, and then it started to be memories of strangers, people that I didn't know. Mainly doctors, people in uniforms, military uniforms. I would be in a place that I don't remember ever going to like Maryland. I never thought I had been to Maryland and I was having memories of being there, and these people hurting me, doing things to me, taking tests, being in front of an audience of people and having to perform in different things. These are the kind of memories that started coming back, and they started coming very fast. Once you are triggered to remember, they don't come out in a timely fashion. They just come crashing out and you are so overwhelmed that if you are not in therapy already, then you just end up in the hospital probably because of suicide attempts, because that's the first thing you want to do is kill yourself - before you can even deal with this because nobody wants to believe this really happened to them. When the memories are so real and so vivid and you know it must have happened - then you check out information and you find out this place does exist - that this person was a real person. Then there is no way of getting around the fact that this was a real memory. You try everything you can to prove they are false, that it didn't really happen, that you made this person up in your mind. When it's proved to you that they are real, accurate memories and you have to deal with it - the first thing you do is deny and then you try to get away from it -

Wayne Morris:

Was it you or your therapist who was attempting to verify the information you were remembering?

Claudia Mullen:

At first, neither one of us did. The memories just started coming and after a while I just started thinking that this didn't happen. You can't prove that it happened. I started writing all this information down - my shadows I call them - my alters - they would come out and write down conversations I overheard, descriptions of places I had been to, things that happened to me. They would write it as sort of a letter to me, "remember Claudia? remember when this colonel came to see us?" and they would describe the man, give part of his name. They would remember whole conversations of things. So finally she said "well, I guess we should trying to find out if this is real or not." She actually didn't try to at first because she said the whole purpose of therapy is not so much to find out if it's real or not, but to deal with what is coming, what you are remembering, try to get through it, process it, and get past it. It's not really to find out if it's true or not. It doesn't really matter. If it's happening to you, then it's real enough to you. I wanted to know whether it was real or not, whether these people existed or not. She had no idea. She had never heard of any of it. She was not familiar with the places I was talking about so she had to send it out to people all over the country. She started getting responses back, that yes, she is describing so-and-so, yes he was known to be involved in CIA government experiments. They started calling me and asking me specific questions and I would describe people accurately. People I supposedly had never met. People who had died years ago. I described the inside of places that supposedly I had never been to and yet I could describe what room I had gone to, what it looked like, things like that. That's how it was verified.

Wayne Morris:

And did you or other people actually go to re-visit any of the places you were describing?

Claudia Mullen:

I went to a few with my therapist. I would never recommend going back to any place where abuse happened by yourself, because you immediately go into a flashback when you go back to some place. We went to some places around New Orleans that I had been to. One was a camp, an arsenal, that's now a police training facility and they allowed us to go in and look around. It was called Camp Nichols in New Orleans, and Dr. Wilson Greene used to stay there when he was in New Orleans. I found out later that it was sort of a place where military people could stay when they came to New Orleans and it also doubled as an arsenal. And I went back to Tulane University and that was pretty scary because that's where a lot of this stuff happened. I showed her the room - I said, "It's room 302" and I described what the hall would look like, what was on the wall, and sure enough a lot of it was the same. Of course there were empty rooms -- they weren't being used. But it was exactly the way I described it. And then some of the people that verified the information actually went to different places and the only place they couldn't get into was Edgewood Arsenal in Fort Detrich, Maryland.

Wayne Morris:

You remember being experimented on within Edgewood Arsenal?

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah. I had been there. I could describe the place but very few people have been inside of it. It did turn out that one of the people that was verifying the information that I sent interviewed different people. A couple of times they interviewed people that I actually remembered from my childhood that remembered me, only they remembered me as "Crystal Stone" which was my name back then. That's what they called me for the experiments - "Crystal Stone". This man interviewed several people and one had actually been inside Edgewood and remembered a portrait of Dr. Greene that had been on the wall, and she said that the description I gave of him was exactly like the picture, that he looked just like the picture. He interviewed another man, a doctor who had come to see me at Tulane, but he had walked out and refused to take part in the experiment because they were using electric shock on me and I was about 14 at the time. He was furious and said "nobody told me you were using children" and he refused to participate. And when he was interviewed by this man, the doctor remembered, "... oh yeah, I remember a little blonde haired girl, skinny -- named Crystal" and so that was verification. But he has asked not to be named.

Wayne Morris:

Just to reiterate, when you first approached the police about the rape that happened, what did you start remembering at that point before you got in contact with Valerie Wolf?

Claudia Mullen:

Actually, as far as any of this stuff, I didn't remember anything. I was mainly having nightmares about the rape. I did try to contact some people from my childhood that I thought had been -- one was a family friend, a doctor -- who I thought had been a family friend -- who had been someone I had always gone to when I had a problem. It turns out he was my monitor, or controller. He was the one who was supposed to keep track of me my whole life and make sure that my memories didn't start coming back, and when they did, he would take me back to Tulane. But I remembered him as a good person -- like an uncle. Then I did call Dr. Robert Heath because I remembered him from my childhood as a doctor I had gone to see. I remembered him as being a kindly old man that had always treated me nice. I didn't even remember what kind of doctor he was -- I just knew the name and I looked it up in the phone book, and I called him, and he said I needed to come in. He remembered me. Actually after the rape, it wasn't until I was in the hospital -- about three months later -- that I started having flashbacks of other people hurting me, other men, not the rapist -- other people. Everybody, from the doctor, the nurses ... was really confused ... because most people who have been treated for a recent trauma ... you have flashbacks of the trauma but you don't have flashbacks of something else ... and it was getting worse instead of better. I was on all this medication, group therapy, being hospitalized on suicide watch, and I wasn't getting any better. I was getting worse. I escaped a couple of times, but they brought me back. The way the memories start coming back -- they deliberately do this. They layer the memories so that you will remember family memories. I remembered my mother abusing me, things that had nothing to do with Tulane or any outside doctors -- I just thought I was abused by my mother and her friends. Then I remembered the camp across the lake and that led to remembering Tulane and that led to remembering all the places I had been to, and it just sort of snowballed. They keep coming, one after another. It's really hard to live while you are getting all these memories back. If I didn't have personalities I probably wouldn't be alive because they came out -- when you are going through these memories you can't just say, "okay I don't want to remember tonight, I want to eat dinner" -- you can't do that. So you go away, and let someone else come out, and they can eat for you, or sleep -- so you are not in a constant flashback.

Wayne Morris:

How did going to therapy at the time help you cope with dealing with all these memories coming back?

Claudia Mullen:

Well, it kept me safe for one thing. Valerie Wolf made sure that -- I had to make a contract with her that I wouldn't hurt myself -- or if I thought about hurting myself I would tell her first. She had to make a contract with each of the personalities that were coming out -- the ones that came out the most. Not everybody came out at once. Obviously -- if I have almost one hundred personalities, not all of them would be coming out at once -- but over the years they come out. Some of them only come out one time and then that's it, they integrate. They come out to give you a memory and then they go inside you and integrate because their job is done. The therapy kept me going from day to day. There were lots of nights I would end up calling her in the middle of the night and she would try to keep control of the flashbacks. That's the worst part, the flashbacks. Because you are actually in the memory and it's happening right then and there. My husband would try to get me out of the flashbacks, and I would think he was the person hurting me. I would fight him. It's more or less a safety thing -- to stay safe. You don't want to be drugged all the time and you don't want to be in the hospital all the time so ... therapy is really important.

Wayne Morris:

Can you describe the approach that your therapist took with you to help you heal, and to help you remember?

Claudia Mullen:

I guess the first part of healing is the remembering part and what she does for that is really just be there -- she doesn't encourage you to remember, you start remembering and you can't help it, and she will just sort of be there and saying, "what else do you remember?" Just sort of someone to give your memory to, someone who believes you, that's a big part of it -- having someone believe you because it is important to you. You remember this awful stuff and once you get past the point of denying it, and you understand it did happen, you need someone else to believe it happened. It is part of the healing process. She was there to help me remember it, to stay safe while I remembered it -- like I said it's actually as if you were going through the whole incident itself. You feel the body pain, whatever happened to you then you feel the same pain. You feel like you are being held down whatever it is that's happening -- you can actually feel -- like, if you are tied down, you can feel the ties on you. You can feel it against your skin. It's a weird sensation. It's almost like you are hallucinating, but you are not. You are just trapped back in this memory. She keeps you from hurting yourself, from running out the door -- which you do. You try to escape because you come in and out of the memory. It is not a constant thing. You are in the process of remembering something awful and somehow you click in -- the here and now will click in -- and you say, "okay I don't want to do this anymore, I want to get the hell out of here" and you start running to the door. She has had to catch me obviously to keep me safe inside of her room. A lot of people can only do this inside of a hospital. I was lucky. I had a therapist who was working outside of the hospital, because it is not a very good environment for doing this -- in the hospital. It is much easier to do it in some place familiar, more like a second home than a hospital environment. Because a lot of the stuff did happen in hospitals -- so that's the last place I want to be. And like I said, verifying the memories. After it's all over with, and you have finished it. You talk about it, you process it and then I would ask her "please try to find out was there a man named James Hamilton from California? Was there ever a doctor by this name?" "Is there such a place as Vacaville, California?" Something like that. So she would call her consultants and all these people that were experts and say, "okay this is the information she gave me." Because she had no idea. She purposely didn't read any of the material that was being published because she didn't want to accidentally contaminate my memories by giving me any information. She said as little as possible during therapy other than encouraging me to talk and basically hanging on to you sometimes.

Wayne Morris:

Now there has been some material published about describing traumatic memory ... and the different way it's processed inside the brain, as opposed to regular memory. In that it does kind of take you back to that raw experience, including body memories, and that sounds like it was your experience as well ...

Claudia Mullen:

Right. Raw experience. That's a good description.

Wayne Morris:

Did you find that you had to relive all of the memories in order to integrate that identity that had that memory, or were there other ways of dealing with it?

Claudia Mullen:

Well I'm told that everyone does their memories different. Everyone heals in a different way. For me in particular, it's important for me to go through the memories. Why I don't know. If I had my choice, I would say, I don't want to do any of the memories. I just want to talk about it, and say, well this happened, on such and such a day, and I was 12 years old -- I would rather talk about it, than experience it. For some reason, I can't put it behind me and go on and deal with it unless I have actually gone through it again. Only this time you do have a sense that it happened a long time ago, that the person's not really there anymore, and that you are safe. That's the only difference. You do have the sensation that you know Valerie is there, that the therapist is there, even though you are caught back in a different time, in a different place -- you still have this sense that this person who is safe and she's not going to let them really hurt you, and that this person is not going to come back and get you -- and that no one else knows about it, it's private. But for me I have to experience the memories. I have to get the full memory from the shadow that experienced it at the time. She gives it to me and then she goes inside or integrates. And that's where most of my shadows have gone. Once they get the memory, they integrate it.

Wayne Morris:

Just to clarify for our listeners -- when you are saying "she", you are really meaning other identities within yourself ...

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. My identities or alters -- I call them shadows -- I mean my alters -- are all little girls. The oldest is 16 years old. The youngest is 1 year old. That's all one hundred of them -- they were all little girls. I don't have any boys, men, animals, robots, anything like that but other people have. Mine are just different ages -- I might have, like, five that are ten years old -- so that's why I have so many. Because there were some years when it was really bad, and things happened a lot, and I missed most of that year at school. It's a miracle that I passed school. I was held back a grade. And we actually went back and checked my school records and that verified information because we found the records of days that I missed from school, and they coincided with memories. I missed almost every Thursday and Friday -- I would go away for the weekend, you now. I don't have any pictures of me at any birthday because I was always sent away for my birthday. I don't have any pictures of me at Christmas, but I have lots of pictures of me at Easter time. I was always home at Easter because Easter is a big Catholic holiday and I was raised Catholic and of course you have to be in church on Easter Sunday or people will ask questions. But for some reason at Christmas, nobody asks questions. But for other people, they don't have to go through the memory. They can just talk about it. For myself I had to go through almost every single one that I have -- there's very few that I am able to process and talk about and not have to experience again. I guess it makes it real for me.

Wayne Morris:

How long has been your healing process? Are you still in therapy now?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes, I am but I am back at work now almost full time, as a nurse. I was out of work four and a half years and I was on disability because I was in therapy so much -- almost every day of the week, except for weekends. I was unable to work. I was just too exhausted. I was on medication. Now I am going to therapy once, maybe twice a week, and it's mainly processing -- talking about the things that happened, talking about how I feel about the people. I have already gotten all the memories back so the worst is over -- actually having to remember every detail. That's done already. That happened during the spring of 1993 until right before Christmas 1996.

Wayne Morris:

So when you actually gave testimony at the Radiation Hearings, you were only about half way through ...

Claudia Mullen:

A little more than half way through the memories. If I gave the testimony now, it would be a lot more accurate, with a lot more detail, a lot more names, places, because there were things I hadn't even remembered then. But it was enough that could be validated, and enough that they were interested ... thank goodness.

Wayne Morris:

You also have a photographic memory.

Claudia Mullen:

I have a shadow who has a photographic memory, so I can use a photographic memory but I don't have access to it at all times. In other words, Claudia doesn't have a photographic memory, but part of me does. I don't have it 100% of the time but I used it a lot when I was growing up because -- unconsciously it was very important to me to remember everything that happened to me, every name, every face. I wanted to remember these people who were hurting me. I didn't know why I wanted to remember. Maybe I thought unconsciously that there would be somebody to tell some day. Somebody that would listen to me. Because they were always telling me not to tell the secrets. That horrible things would happen if you told someone. And I did try to tell twice as I was growing up. I tried to tell two different people and both times I got punished for it. I learned my lesson and I didn't tell anybody.

Wayne Morris:

Who were these people that you had told?

Claudia Mullen:

When I was seven, I told the school nurse. I had been to camp the weekend before, to Mr. Fenner's camp across the lake. I had a really rough time. I was bleeding vaginally. I had bruises, scrapes all over me and my mother would send me to school with these flesh coloured leotards on ... with stockings ... like a little ballet suit, only it was flesh coloured and I would wear my uniform so it hid all the bruises and the scrape on me. She would put like a pad on me, you know, like you use for your period, and she sent me to school. I went to the school nurse because my teacher thought I looked really pale and not feeling well. I told the nurse. She said "How did this happen to you?" She saw I was bleeding and everything, had a temperature, a fever. And I said "my mother did it." She said, "no really, how did this happen?" I said, "my mother did it - she let this man do something to me and I don't want to go home." And so she told me to lay down and take a nap, and she would take care of it. I thought she was going to call the police and have my mother arrested. Instead she called my mother to come and pick me up and that she thought my mother should know what her daughter was saying about her. Of course I missed school after that for three days because she took it out on me.

Wayne Morris:

Your mother punished you ...

Claudia Mullen:

And then when I was fourteen I told somebody and once again, they told my mother -- no actually, they told my monitor, Dr. Brown, the family friend who was best friends with Mr. Fenner and also with Dr. Robert Heath from Tulane and he was friends with a lot of the people from the CIA too. He actually worked with Martin Orne in the 1950's so he was friends with him. I told him what was happening. I said bad things were happening, I don't want to go home, I don't want to go see doctors any more and of course, he punished me then he told my mother. So that was the only two times I told anybody what was going on. I learned my lesson not to tell. But I kept everything filed away in my photographic memory. I remembered whole conversations, could describe what everybody was wearing, what they sounded like, what the place looked like, what it felt like, everything. That's why I have been able to give so much information. It's not just blurs of things that happened to me -- it's details and I am told that that's not very common -- that most people don't remember a lot of detail. They remember the feelings and the pain and sensations, but they don't remember small details, or they try not to.

Wayne Morris: I wonder if we could go into some of these details that you do remember, if you could talk about some of the people involved in the experiments ...

Claudia Mullen:

Since there were so many, you will have to tell me ... at what times do you want to know about ... at what age ...

Wayne Morris:

Maybe you could go chronologically ... what kind of experiments were they doing at the start, and who was involved, and if you knew what the different projects were at the time ...

Claudia Mullen:

Okay. Like I told you before, when I was 8 years old I was told I was going to be tested to see if I could participate or take part in this big project. They kept calling the project ... and it was for the President of the United States and it was to help stop communism and it sounded very exciting ... so these people ... I was told they were doctors ... and these important people were going to come from all over the country to test me. I mainly was at Tulane for the tests. Some of the tests were -- personality tests. It was mostly men who were involved. There was one women I remember distinctly, Phyllis Greenacre, she was from a place called Cornell. I didn't even know that was a school at the time, I just remembered the word "Cornell" But the rest of them were men, and they would say "Call me Uncle ... (so and so) " So Uncle John came from Oklahoma and tested me for personality. He had names for different types of tests but basically he was testing to see how my personality ... who I would fit in with best ... who I would get along with the best. I think they already an idea of what they wanted to use me for but they had to see specifically what I would be most useful ... how I could help the projects the most. He tested me and said I got along best with older men ... "daddies" or "uncles". That's what I was looking for -- affection from older men. In my own life my adoptive mother was so dominant, and horrible and scary and my adoptive father was sickly and very weak, never stood up to my mother, knew what was going on, never stopped it. Here I was looking for this strong man to come along and save me. So, his name was Uncle John and he was also known as "the Gittinger Man". I had to remember these people by characteristics they had, by the clothes they wore, or by maybe something they talked about, omething odd about them -- because there were so many people coming and going in my life it would have been impossible just to remember names and put faces with them and where they from ... so I would call them by different nicknames. John Gittinger was the "Goatee Man". I told him he had a funny looking beard and he said it's called a 'goatee'. It was the first time I had ever heard that expression. Then there was Uncle Sid who was Gottlieb. I called him the man with the pebble in his shoe because he walked funny, he had a limp.

Gittinger was mainly just talking to me, trying to get an idea of what I was like, was I obedient. They would test me for memory, and of course I had a very good memory and that was important. They did IQ tests, and I mentioned Phyllis Greenacre before. She tested me for sexual type things, how I responded sexually. She determined that I did not respond well to women because of my experiences with my mother. I hated women touching me, examining me but it wasn't so bad with men because obviously women reminded me of my mother. Phyllis Greenacre reminded me of my mother so I couldn't stand her. I heard them talking, I was sitting in the room and they would talk about what they had found, as if I wasn't even there. I guess I wasn't supposed to understand a word. I was only 8 years old. They figured I wouldn't know what they were talking about. They didn't bother to take me out of the room. She said that I would respond to older men and I responded quickly to physical stimulation, and they would actually [sexually] stimulate you in different ways to see what would happen.

They actually had machines with wires and tubes coming out of them and they would insert them inside of you and then they would stimulate you and they would give you a score on how you responded in terms of how much. It sounds really weird.

Wayne Morris:

This was all done when you were around eight years old ...

Claudia Mullen:

For a whole year I was brought back and forth to Tulane and tested for all sorts of things. To see how easily I was hypnotized and there were several people who tested me for that -- Martin Orne -- I called him "The Orne Man" and "The Weasel". He reminded me of a weasel, his eyes were ... He was very scary though. He hypnotized me and said I hypnotized easily and rapidly -- they could "induce me rapidly" is what they called it. I think that was the main criteria. You had to have a certain IQ, you had to have a good to excellent memory, you had to be able to be hypnotized easily and quickly, you had to be able to dissociate. The imaginary friends -- they were very pleased to hear that I had imaginary friends inside, that I called "The Annies". You had to respond well to people and be obedient. And I was. I had always been taught -- there wasn't any other way to behave in my world. If you weren't obedient you got hurt. My mother taught me that. I always listened to grownups and did what they told me no matter how odd it seemed or how bad it seemed. It would be something really bad to do like take all your clothes off. I didn't argue. I just did it because the consequences were bad. Those were the kinds of tests ...

Wayne Morris:

Why do you think those were the kind of factors they were looking for within you? What did they hope to achieve by doing these things to you, in your opiniion?

Claudia Mullen:

Looking back -- of course at the time I had no idea -- and even a year later when I was sent off to a training camp in Maryland, I didn't really understand. But now looking back I know they were looking for someone to use in sexual entrapment, blackmail. That's what they were going to use me for. They needed someone that responded well to strangers, to men, and who had a good memory because I would be taught at this camp how to coerce people into giving a lot of information about themselves. Obviously they are talking to a child. They are doing something sexual that they aren't supposed to be doing, and they are not really conscious about what they are talking about. You know they give away a lot of information about themselves or their jobs and if you know the right questions to ask, you can get them to talk just about anything about themselves. Uncle Richard used to tell me it is amazing what people will admit when they are in the presence of a young girl. They are not even thinking about the stuff they are saying. What they would do ... I was told I had passed all the tests, and the next summer I was going to be sent to this camp. And I thought, oh no, camp. That's bad. But they said this was a really nice camp, and it was in Maryland, and they asked my Mom for permission to send me away and of course she signed the papers and she didn't even ask about it. I was taken on a train to a place called Deep Creek Lodge in Maryland. It was beautiful. It was all surrounded by water. To me it was Disneyland only I didn't know about Disneyland then, but that's just what I would compare it to. There was great food, people didn't hurt you in the same way I was used to being hurt. They treated you like you were important, like you were special and I was told I was going to learn how to sexually please men. I was nine years old. I didn't know what sexually please men meant, but I just knew that if I was good, and behaved myself I could stay. I stayed for three weeks. It was probably the best three weeks of my life up to that point.

There were other children there as young as five or six years old. Children younger than myself. There were young women there ... teenagers ... all different ages, and some boys too. The first couple of days we kind of saw each other, and after that you were pretty much alone with one person. You were paired up with an adult and you stayed with them for three weeks in a cabin, like a resort cabin. I was told later by one of the experts that this place was a CIA training ground and also a place where people could just get away, take vacations. It was free if you were in the CIA. It was also very isolated. It was on like an island ... it was hard to get to, it was very private. Anyhow my day consisted of being with this man called "Uncle Otto", that's what he told me to call him and he was a doctor and he was from Kansas. I got to choose what name I wanted to use and I chose Ava after Ava Gardner because I loved movie stars. We spent the day going to the pool or just staying in the room playing games that he taught me. Most of the time I didn't have any clothes on. Most of the time he didn't have any clothes on. But after a while you just learned to ignore that kind of stuff. You weren't embarassed anymore. And it was only one person. It wasn't like you had to go in front of all these strangers with no clothes on, so that was an improvement. You weren't really doing any horrible things where people were screaming, where there was blood. He was of course molesting me, but he didn't actually rape me so it wasn't physically painful in that sense. Everything was kind of an improvement over what I was used to and this was a vacation.

In the evening, after about a week there, Uncle Otto had taught me different things to sexually please men just like they said I was going to. And I thought they were yucky and I didn't like doing it but I thought well this is what I have to do to not be hurt and to be treated nice and get good food and not starve because my mother would starve me sometimes when we went to camp. Sometimes all you had to eat was an orange or something. I mean that's something they would give you. This was definitely an improvement. I thought if I have to do this yucky stuff well then I am going to do it. Of course different shadows or alters would come out and help me, so that I didn't always have to do it. After the first week, other people started coming in, other men, and what they would do is put me in a room with them. I would have to do whatever they wanted, but it wasn't violent, you know. They were mostly kind of molesting me, kind of thing. Or I would do something to them, and I knew it was being filmed. They showed me about the camera behind the mirror and I had to get them to talk about themselves. Afterwards I would go in this room and there would be the "Gottlieb Man", the "Man with a Pebble in His Shoe", a man named "Morgan Hall" who was really Captain White. Morse Allen, the "Morse Man, and Uncle Otto. Sometimes there would be other people there. They would ask me to describe the person, to repeat everything he had said to me, just pretty much to remember everything I could about the incident, and then they would show the film they had taken and see how well I had remembered and tell me how well I did, or if I forgot something important it was pointed out to me, or if there was something I could have done better, like getting him to talk about his family more.

Wayne Morris:

Did you get the sense that these other men knew about the camera behind the mirror?

Claudia Mullen:

Oh yeah, they all knew, because first I would talk about it and then they would show the film that had been taken that day.

Wayne Morris:

But the actual men who were in the room ...

Claudia Mullen:

Oh no, no. I don't think they did. I don't know who they were ... soldiers maybe ... I don't know. People they flew in to be subjects, I don't know who they were. No. I doubt seriously that they knew about the camera. They didn't act like they knew.

Wayne Morris:

So you believe that the experimentation that was done with you was for purposes of using you in sexual blackmail or entrapment?

Claudia Mullen:

Definitely. But as I got older, I was told they were going to be using me "out in the field". But I had to be a certain age because they couldn't send a nine year old or even a ten year old to a hotel room with a man, it would be a little bit too much I guess, so they had to wait until I got to be more like twelve or thirteen when they really started using me. But they told me that's what they were doing. They were going to get these people on the film ... Captain White told me. He was in charge of taking the film. I called him the "Martini Man" because he drank martinis all the time and he carried a gun, and he said he was a policeman at one time. He told me what they were doing -- taking pictures of the men with me because they were doing something they weren't supposed to be doing. And of course I knew that. I knew it was wrong. They had wives at home, and children, and they wouldn't want their wives to know what they did, they wouldn't want the people they worked with to know that they were talking about their job. That's why I had to get them talking about what they did, what kind of stuff they did, describe their families, ask them about money. I knew that whatever these people were telling me and doing to me was going to be used against them. And when I got a little older, there started to be a lot of politicians, people in the CIA -- I don't know how they didn't know they were being filmed because they knew about those projects, but for some reason -- I guess because it was a different hotel or a different place, they thought they were getting away with it, that nobody was watching them. So just about everybody got filmed ...

Wayne Morris:

You are saying that other CIA personnel were filmed with you as well with you?

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah. Just about everybody was filmed except Martin Orne, he was the only one who wasn't about to be caught. He made sure that he never got on film, at least that I know of. They may have gotten him with someone else, they didn't get him with me.

Wayne Morris:

Did you get a sense of what they were using these films specifically for against these people?

Claudia Mullen:

They said it was for money and to keep the projects going, but the most important thing was that the President wanted these projects going and that they had to get the money because the CIA couldn't afford to pay for it, so other people had to pay for it and didn't I want to keep helping the President? Of course I said yeah. Well, he needs money from these people. Sometimes the people decide that they don't want to give money anymore, so if we have the films, and they don't want anyone to know what they did on the films, then they are going to give money. So they pretty much explained to me what they were using me for. Then there were doctors that, people that had foundations behind their names, so-and-so Foundation and like -- there was a doctor -- there were a lot of people named "Charles" for some reason. There was a Dr. Charles Geshecker or something like that and he had a foundation or something -- and he was one of the people I got filmed with.

Wayne Morris:

Geschickter Foundation, was that the name?

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah. His name was Charles and he was a doctor. He was one of those people who had a lot of money, I was told ...

Wayne Morris:

So these people who were filmed were in some ways involved in funding these projects, or were coerced into funding?

Claudia Mullen:

Some of them were. I think they were afraid they would talk about the projects, and so they had to use something to keep them quiet. For instance, there was a guy named Church -- all I knew was, he would try, he was very important to them because he was going to convince other people to let the projects keep going and so they had to get something on this guy, Church. This was later, when I was in high school. Supposedly he ended up talking other people into letting the projects keep going. He was supposed to be investigating - to see if there was anything wrong being done by the CIA - and so he of course decided nothing wrong was being done because they had a film on him.

Wayne Morris:

So you got the sense that this man, Church, was a politician in some way?

Claudia Mullen:

I know some of them were politicians because they had Senator in front of their name. I don't know if he was a Senator, I just know he was Frank Church. He was on some committee that was supposed to be checking on the CIA to see if what they were doing was wrong, or illegal, or something. They said he was going to decide in favour of the CIA because they were going to tell him the film would show up somewhere if he didn't. Apparently it worked, because they kept going. There was a Senator from Louisiana that I was with a couple of times. He was kind of old, but apparently he was on one of the committees that was checking up on the CIA. They were always being checked on ... that's what they told me. People were always trying to find something bad about them to stop the projects and shut them down and they had to keep going, and if it meant hurting a few people, then that's what they had to do.

Wayne Morris:

Do you have a sense of how often you were used for this kind of entrapment or coercion?

Claudia Mullen:

Well ... there were certain years that I was used a lot. When I was 13 and 14 - I would say at least a couple of times a month. There were times when they would have me for two or three weeks, you know. I would go every day ... so ... or they would take me out of town someplace. I would go in these little planes and go to different military bases, sometimes there were houses. I went to Texas a lot. I went to Maryland a lot. There was a lot during the years 1963-64 and then, like before I graduated from high school, 1966-67, they used me a lot. And then in 1972 when I was getting ready to graduate from college they got a hold of me for several times for a couple of weeks. It was pretty much ... I could expect it every August because a lot of people would come to New Orleans in August and May for some convention or something. There would always be a lot of doctors in town and ... I knew I was going to have to go some place. But I didn't know in between, because obviously I would forget, because they would always make sure that I forgot before they sent me home. They had to do that, because I couldn't go home remembering that I had just been with Senator Long or somebody like that ... you know, they had to make sure I had amnesia so they gave me amnesia barriers in between.

Wayne Morris:

And how would they do that?

Claudia Mullen:

Ah. Shock treatments.

Wayne Morris:

Electricity ...

Claudia Mullen:

Electricity. Yeah. That causes amnesia for recent events. So I would have to go back to Tulane and sit in this chair, it was like a dentist's chair and they had figured out just how much electricity it took to cause my amnesia, or to make it last. There was a man from Canada who spoke with a funny accent and always called me "Lassie" and I always thought, "why is he calling me a dog?" I always thought he was calling me "Lassie" the collie from tv. He was the one who came in and figured out how much electricity it would take, and he was kind of an expert on it.

Wayne Morris:

Do you remember this person's name?

Claudia Mullen:

I called him the "Camera Man" because his last name sounded like Camera Man. He was good friends with the "Dull Men", the Dulles Men. There were two of them and he was good friend of one of them, and he was a doctor and he had saved another man's son. There was a story that he was a story like he was a hero to this "Dull Man" because he had saved his son from something ... he worked for an Institute that was named after one of the "Dull Men". There was one that I never met but heard about. I knew the one Dull Man, called John but I didn't know his brother, I just heard about him. I guess it was Dulles.

Wayne Morris:

That would have been John Foster Dulles ...

Claudia Mullen:

There were a lot of people I didn't ... I never really heard their real names ... but after a while the people who researched all this would say "well obviously you are talking about John Dulles ..." and I would say, "welll who's that?" because I have never been really big on names. I have always stayed away from anything that had anything to do with politics, watching the news. I have always had an aversion to that. Never knew why until now. Now I know why. So I made a point of not knowing anything about politics or politicians. These names meant nothing to me until people started telling me who they were.

Wayne Morris:

Did you remember the actual name of the person you are describing as the "Camera Man"?

Claudia Mullen:

I was told after I described what he looked like and that his last name sounded like camera man and that he talked with an accent that he was Dr. Ewen Cameron from Canada.

Wayne Morris:

And what was Dr. Cameron specifically involved in?

Claudia Mullen:

Electricity.

Wayne Morris:

Just the electricity?

Claudia Mullen:

With me, yeah. They brought him to New Orleans, to Tulane to give me shock treatments to figure out exactly how much they needed and how many times they needed to give it to me to make me forget until the next time. He gave me different amounts of shock at different times. I think I was there for several days, maybe three or four days the first time I met him. I guess I wasn't even a teenager yet, I was just ten or eleven years old. He also did something else. He would make messages on tape and at night when you slept you had to listen to these messages and I guess they used them for his voice or something because he had a really interesting voice, it made you want to listen. He would repeat things over and over again.

Wayne Morris:

It would be his voice on the tapes that were used?

CLAUDIA MULLEN.

Yeah. They would have other people on tape too, but I remember during this time when they were doing the electricity, they would give me what they called the "sleep talk tape" to make you very sleepy. Put you in a dark room, put these earphones on you, then you would have something attached to your toes and to maybe one finger ... like clothespins they felt like ... so you would go to sleep listening to this tape that was going on and his messages ... and if you fell asleep something would wake you up ... these things that were attached to your toes and your hands ... and I guess it was these little jolts of electricity to wake you up. It would keep you from sleeping at all. You couldn't sleep the whole night. You had to listen constantly.

Wayne Morris:

How long would this go on for?

Claudia Mullen:

Three or four days, three or four nights.

Wayne Morris:

Continuous? You were not allowed to sleep during those three or four days?

Claudia Mullen:

Nope.

Wayne Morris:

Do you have memories of what the messages were that were being used?

Claudia Mullen:

They would always start with, "Crystal, your mother abandoned you. She didn't want you." That I was bad, that I was doing these perverted things, that type of thing.

Claudia Mullen:

...the doctors were the only ones who could save me. The doctors were my friends. I had to listen to the doctors and only them. They wouldn't name any names specifically, just to say "the doctors, the good doctors". All my life I always -- if anything was wrong, I always went to a doctor because this was ingrained me, that doctors were the answer to everything. And believe me, my whole life, when I wasn't going through this stuff, I was constantly having something wrong with me. I was in and out of the hospital. I had all sorts of illnesses which they could never diagnosis specifically what was wrong with me; a history of headaches, migraine headaches my whole life, and the headaches were from the shock. They hit you hard, those headaches. You wake up from getting shock treatments and your head just feels like it is going to explode. So that would get you on painkillers and get you addicted to painkillers so you would have to keep going back to get more painkillers for headaches. I had surgery I found out later didn't even need to be done, that they were looking for things that were wrong with me. I would go to other doctors, and they wouldn't know anything about this, they would just -- I had episodes where I was vomiting constantly, couldn't keep any food down, was losing weight, and I had exploratory surgery and they never did find anything wrong with me.

Wayne Morris:

Where was the surgery done on you?

Claudia Mullen:

In my stomach, abdominal surgery. They took my gall bladder and appendix out, but there was nothing wrong with them, and I kept vomiting. What it was was body pain, body memories coming back. Before the actual memories came back, the actual flashbacks come, you get the body pain first. That's the first sign that you are getting a memory. It usually starts with a headache, and then stomach-ache, cramps ... the actual pain of the memory without the actual memory, you would just get the pain part. Pain comes first, always. Pain is a barrier to remembering. Because you would be in so much pain, you would want to get rid of the pain right away, so I would call up Dr. Charles Brown who was the, friend, the one I told you about, who was actually my monitor and friends with Darlen Fenner, Robert Heath, Martin Orne. I would go to him and say I am having these horrible headaches, cramps, they won't go away. Of course that would be a sign to him that she's remembering, she's going to start remembering pretty soon. So then he would take me to Dr. Heath and he would say well he's going to fix me up and he would give me more shock treatments and I would go home and forget.

Wayne Morris:

He would give you electroshock ...

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah. And then painkillers for the headache that I would get afterwards. But the body pain would go away because I would start remembering. So I would start having nightmares about snakes or weird things and I would go to Dr. Brown and say I am having these nightmares and he would think oh she's going to start remembering things so we'd better do something. It was usually shock that they used, but sometimes they would use trauma, just traumatize you so much you would just forget.

Wayne Morris:

And how would they traumatize you?

Claudia Mullen:

It depended on what was going on at the time. Sometimes they would send me to ... they knew people in the city who were involved in the white supremacy groups ... sometimes they would send me out to Klan meetings and I would have to go to one of them at night and watch things being done to other people and then ... have things done to me ... be raped or eaten or whatever ... you had enough trauma to make you forget whatever you were starting to remember. This would make it go away. Then you would forget this as soon as it happened too. Because nobody wants to remember something like that. One of the mind's defences I guess when something really horrible happens is to forget it right away, usually. If it's bad enough. And then of course I had the personalities ... they would come out for the trauma and then they would go back ... and so Claudia would have no memory of what just happened. My shadows would, but I wouldn't. Unless they would give me the memory, it was as if it never happened to me. I would be sore, hurt, bruised, whatever, but I wouldn't know why so I would go to Dr. Brown or Dr. Heath and they would explain what happened to me. And usually they would make up some story about how I tried to hurt myself, that I tried to kill myself again. I thought I was suicidal my whole life because they told me I was.

Wayne Morris:

Did you feel the doctors were deliberately creating dissociation with you?

Claudia Mullen:

They knew that I could dissociate from the beginning, so they just caused me to dissociate even more, because the more you split, the easier it was to hide what they were doing. In other words, you can only split ... they can't make you split, can't make you dissociate, but they can create the circumstances that they know if you are able to dissociate you will, you will do it. Like the trauma I just described, by sending me out to a Masonic Lodge for a party ... they would send me out and they knew something horrible was going to happen to me. They knew that I would split. That someone would be created to take whatever happened that night, and probably that's all they would do, and then they would go back, and then, you know, go to sleep, become dormant. These are the shadows that I've talked about, that I have integrated. Once they gave me the memory up to that experience, then they integrate. So, they create circumstances to make you split, and split, and split, and the more you split the less chance you have of ever healing ... the more crazy you are going to sound if you ever do go to work with a psychiatrist, therapist, because there was always that chance ... that I might get away from them and seek help from someone other than the "good doctors" that I knew already. So they had to make you seem as crazy as possible, and of course, the more alters you have, the more bizarre you are going to seem to people. The more bizarre the trauma ... like the camp I would go to across the lake ... that Mr. Fenner had ... they would put on these ceremonies. A lot of times it was fake stuff. They would pretend to cut people open or kill babies. Back then I thought it was real, it was all happening. If you describe something like that about a ceremony where a baby is cut up and killed and eaten, people are going to think you're insance, this didn't happen.

So they would kind of mimic Satanic rituals to make it seem like that had happened, and if I ever told anybody, they would dismiss it right away.

Wayne Morris:

So you feel that these things were done basically to cover the doctors' tracks ...

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah, right. To make it seem, if I ever remembered, I would remember first the incest stuff, the stuff at home, and then it would gradually go from that to the ritual stuff. Rituals meaning either Satanic stuff across the lake ... rituals ... like the white supremacy groups ... like the rituals that they do ... burning the crosses. I mean I actually saw them kill people, black people. This is like in the early 60's. I went to a couple of Masonic parties at a Lodge which was located right near the research building ... the research building for animal research in New Orleans, and it is still there as a matter of fact. I have been back there. They sent me there sometimes, for certain tests, for experiments ... there was a Masonic Lodge right around the corner from it ... and they sent me to a couple of parties there. These people go crazy at these parties. These men, they just get drunk and ... they pass you around ... it's horrible what they do. This of course makes it seem like ... if I remember ... well, I remember being at this party and these men were hurting me but I don't remember doctors being involved, I don't remember Tulane University being involved, or anybody from Maryland. I would remember this Masonic Lodge and so that's how they cover their tracks.

Wayne Morris:

Was it sexual abuse that was going on or other kinds of abuse at these parties?

Claudia Mullen:

They would make you perform sexually. They would make you watch other people perform. They would have everything you could imagine, even bringing in animals ... and you had to watch. It's just as bad as having it done to yourself ... sometimes watching is just as bad ...

Wayne Morris:

Watching it being done to other children or ...

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah, especially if it's people younger than yourself. You're a child and you have to stand there and watch a little kid, half your age, being tortured or raped, or whatever. I mean, that's as bad as having it done to yourself. You would almost rather it be done to you because ... you know what it's like, and you don't want to watch it. Then they would give you the choice ... well, then, you could take their place. And then you would have to make the decision whether it's going to be you or her, and then if you decide not to do it, then you have to live with the guilt that it happened to someone else because you decided not to do it. So they had you either way you looked at it ... you're screwed either way usually. There was no way out of any of these situations.

Wayne Morris:

When you remember this Lodge, did you make attempts to verify where it was?

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah, we went there. We went to the Lodge, talked to people, but it's not a Lodge anymore, it's a public health building now. We talked to people who said, yeah, it was a Masonic Lodge at one time. Valerie and I went there. We went to Camp Nichols which I said was a police training ground now, but they said it was an arsenal at one time, and we went into a room where I stayed when I was there. They did some kind of bizarre ... I guess I was about eight ... there were two other children I was put with ... a boy and a little girl about five years old. And they would do things like ... I guess just to traumatize you ... they would do things ... sexual to you, or physically hurt you, beat you or whatever, and then they would say, well, you have to choose somebody, which person is going to live or die? The boy or the girl? They would give you choices like that. Impossible situations. And then, they would go through the motions where they would take one of the kids outside, kill them, they didn't, I am sure they didn't, I'm sure it was like a play they put on ... but it was just to put you through these mind games ... just to mess up your ... I don't know what they were doing ... just trauma, I know that. By the time they were finished, you didn't know if you were coming or going. It just seemed so bizarre, and if I had ever remembered it before now, before I had a good therapist to help me, and who validated the fact that these things do happen ... anybody else would think you were just crazy, and they would lock you up and throw away the key.

Wayne Morris:

I think that was their intent. It seems that incorporating ...

Claudia Mullen:

And there were a lot of messages they gave you over the years, that if you did start remembering this, the guilt would be so bad, that you would have to kill yourself, and they were hoping that by now, I would have killed myself and I haven't (laughs) ... they are pretty pissed off about it, the people that are left ...

Wayne Morris:

Did you feel that they were using this trauma to create dissociation for other purposes than just hiding the fact that they were doing the experiments on you?

Claudia Mullen:

I think they were doing it also just to see what they could do ... they could take a child's mind ... and what could they actually do? How much could they cause her to split? How many times? How much could they do to somebody, and how quickly could they forget it? Just to see what could be done ... just for the hell of it, I guess.

Wayne Morris:

Perhaps that was part of the experimentation itself ...

Claudia Mullen:

Yeah. They had a lot of different projects. It wasn't all sexual stuff -- there were a lot of projects that were just about mind control. They had these names for the projects that were -- you would never know what the project was really about -- Sensitive Research - that was part of the Operational side of the CIA -- that was a department of the CIA - well, it was sexual stuff. Sensitive Research? That could be just about anything, right? And Uncle Richard was head of the Sensitive Research Department, "Dirty Tricks Department" he called it. Uncle Richard turned out to be, after I described him, and had a lot of memories about him, I found out from one of the experts that his name was Richard Helms.

Wayne Morris:

And he was the CIA Director at a certain point ...

Claudia Mullen:

When I knew him, he was the Deputy Director ... they called him "the Deputy". I can remember being impressed because I loved cowboys, cowboy movies and stuff, so when he told me he was a deputy, that's all I heard, and I thought he was a deputy like in the Old West. He didn't really molest me or do anything to me until I got to be about 13 and then he started all of a sudden ... it was "call me Uncle Richard". Before that he would pretty much dismiss me or talk around me or not pay any attention to me. I was always really impressed by that because he seemed to have a lot of power, everybody seemed to listen to what he had to say, he dressed in the most expensive clothes, he always looked really nice, he had everybody waiting on him hand and foot. He was an impressive man and I was always in awe of him. All of a sudden, when I turned 13, he started paying attention to me and that really impressed me. I thought I must be really special ... this guy says call me Uncle Richard now ... it turns out he liked teenage girls, he didn't like children. He would purposely take me to places where he knew they didn't have cameras because he knew all about the cameras, the filming.

Wayne Morris:

I wonder if we could go through the people that you have mentioned in your testimony and if we could talk one by one about exactly what they were involved in ... in the experimentation? Maybe we could start with Sidney Gottlieb ...

Claudia Mullen:

Okay. Sidney Gottlieb is one of the first people that I remember from when I was 8 years old, he was there from the beginning. I knew that he worked for "The Agency". They always referred to "The Agency". They made no secret of the fact that it was the CIA. Sometimes I would overhear or they would tell me which department they were from -- he was in the Science and Technology Department, he said. He worked very closely with Martin Orne, a Dr. Steven Aldridge, and Morse Allen. Apparently he and Morse Allen had been working together since this whole thing started -- since the late 1940's or early 50's -- and they were all good friends with Richard Helms too, which was kind of odd because they were complete opposites to each other -- they seemed like people who could never get along together, yet they were very good friends. Gottlieb had a lot to do with radiation -- with any kind of research. I remember him all the way from when I was little through the time I was in high school, and after that I didn't see him much, I didn't hear about him much. I don't know where he went, what he was doing. He must have been involved with something else.

Wayne Morris:

So, how many years was he involved and what happened to you?

Claudia Mullen:

>From eight years old to sixteen years -- about eight years. He told me he raised goats. They would talk about themselves sometimes. It is amazing. These people would just ... as if they figured I wasn't going to remember anything when I left, wherever I was. So they were just free to talk and sometimes they just used to like to brag about themselves. I remember so much about them because basically they were arrogant, most of them were arrogant people and they liked you to know how important they were, or how many kids they had, how much power they had -- so they would say what their title was or something to impress you I guess. Thinking the whole time that "she is not going to remember" or thinking they are talking to a child who doesn't even understand the words they are using, not knowing that years later I am going to remember the same words and understand their meaning.

Wayne Morris:

You mentioned Dr. Ewen Cameron was specifically involved in the electroshock. You do have a sense of how long of a period he was involved with your experimentation?

Claudia Mullen:

They called a lot of them in as "consultants". Dr. Heath or Dr. Green would say, "let's call Cameron in ... to test her." Next thing I knew, I would be called back to Tulane and here was the "Camera Man", Cameron. He came in around 1960 when I was about 9 or 10. He was there a lot at first, testing how much electricity was too much, they didn't want to fry my brain or anything because they needed me to seem fairly intelligent because I had to associate with people. I had to go back to school, so they had to be very careful when they used stuff on me, they couldn't disfigure me. I guess I was lucky in that sense, that I was in a private girls' school, I was from a wealthy family and they had to send me back home. My family wasn't involved in this per se. My mom knew they were using me, but she didn't know what exactly - so they had to send me back in fairly good condition. So that made me one of the lucky ones. For the ones from homeless families, or poor families - they didn't care what condition they sent them back in, or even if they sent the child back at all. They would use things on them that would disfigure them, but it didn't matter. In my case, I was fortunate.

Another thing was that Dr. Heath wanted to implant something in my brain and Mr. Fenner wouldn't let him. He said how am I going to explain this to her mother? We can't send her home with her head shaved, so I got out of having implants in my brain because of that.

But you asked me about Cameron. I knew him from about 1959 or 1960 and then when I was in high school one day, just out of the blue, someone said, "he fell off a mountain" - somebody named "Cleghorn" was coming to get me to do the electric shock. I was told years later, that yeah, he was mountain-climbing or skiing and fell off a mountain and died, so that was true.

Wayne Morris:

Did you have a sense of who this Cleghorn person was?

Claudia Mullen:

He worked with Cameron very closely. I guess he was from the same place. He liked to use electricity, only he thought Cameron didn't use enough. He believed in using a lot more. He didn't try to get along with you, or act friendly in any way. He was very cold. Whereas Cameron could talk to you or attempt to be friendly. Some of them were like that. They would introduce themselves, ask questions. Others just did what they had to do and got out of there and never said a word.

Wayne Morris:

So how many years did you come in contact with Dr. Cameron, from 1959-60 until when ...

Claudia Mullen:

I think until I was about 16 or 16 1/2, so that would be 1966 or 1967 and I was told he had fallen off a mountain. I know I was in high school, the latter part of high school. Around 1966 or 1967. The thing I was telling you about - the messages he would give me - he would tape record and then they would play at night? They called it something called "psychic driving". That's what the messages were called.

Wayne Morris:

And Martin Orne? What was his involvement?

Claudia Mullen:

Oh boy. He was one of the scariest people. He was with Dr. Brown, my monitor, at the NIH in the 1950's and they were good friends. He said he was an expert in lie detection and that he could always tell when someone was lying, that he had invented the lie detector or something ... He is a very arrogant person and thinks a lot of himself so he could have told me a lot of lies about what he could do and what he couldn't do. There wasn't anything he couldn't do ... supposedly. He could tell whenever you were lying. He hated everyone. He didn't get along with anyone. He called me "the little bitch" - that was his nickname for me. He wouldn't even call me by name. He mainly did hypnosis type stuff, he was always there for the shock treatments, if nothing else, just to watch ... When they asked me questions, he would be the one to tell them whether I was lying or not. He would have me hooked up to a couple of machines, he would have electrodes on my head and he said he could read the machines and tell whether I was lying or not. I guess it was like a lie detector, I don't know. He's still alive.

Claudia Mullen:

He's still alive in Philadelphia. I called him, he was one of the people i called, cause I remembered him, before i started getting all these memories back. I remembered Robert Heath, of course Dr. Brown, and i remembered this Martin Orne.

Wayne Morris:

So, at what point did you phone him back?

Claudia Mullen:

I phoned him ... after ... the rape happened in October of 1992. That next spring. I started getting weird nightmares and flashbacks. I remembered Martin Orne.

Wayne Morris:

You remembered him as one of your so-called "good" doctors.

Claudia Mullen:

Right. I had his home number. So I called him and he said had I called Dr. Heath. I said "yeah, but he wants me to come back for more electric shock treatments." So Orne said, "that's what you need to do then." I said, why did you do these things to me? I remember you. You were so mean." He said he never did anything to hurt me, that he was just there as a consultant. He swore up and down he never did anything to hurt me. Then I heard ... after we got back from Washington testifying ... I heard that he had a stroke. He is still paralyzed from the stroke I think.

Wayne Morris:

And what about Dr. Robert Heath? What aspects was he specifically involved with?

Claudia Mullen:

He is a neuropsychiatrist and he is the head of the department at Tulane University. It was his department that was given the money, the grant money. He was also given a whole wing of the medical school (just to use for experiments) by Mr. Fenner who was the Chairman of the Board of Tulane Medical School. There were just a lot of children, I remember. We weren't allowed to talk to each other. We weren't even supposed to see each other, but you could hear them sometimes. We would stay on this wing where there weren't any nurses, right? It was just like orderlies and the doctors, but it wasn't a regular hospital like with nurses who came into see you. You had monitors in your room and they watched you. I am pretty sure they had a camera in your room. And Dr. Heath was the head of the department there, and he also was known for doing a lot of work on brains ... experimenting on people's brains and he was the one who wanted to put an implant in my brain so that he could "telegraph", he said, "messages to me" when I was doing the entrapment thing with men that he could stimulate different parts of your brain or something ... he could do it by you know ... remote ... he didn't call it remote control ... he said he could access my brain from a distance, but he had to implant a box in your head.

Wayne Morris:

So would you say he was the main doctor in charge of what happened to you?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. He was considered "my" doctor, like on record. I had to have a record, for charts, at Tulane under the name Chrystal Stone, and he was Chrystal Stone's doctor. Of course he has now removed my records. When I called him the first time, and said "what did you do to me? I am having these memories, and I thought you were my doctor back then." My mother had brought me to Tulane because Mr. Fenner had told her he thought they could help me at Tulane because I was having behavioural problems at home, and I was real little. This was before Deep Creek Lodge and all that before I was eight years old. She said I was acting out and I was crying lots ... wetting the bed and stuff like that and so Mr. Fenner suggested that she should bring me to Tulane to see this Dr. Heath. That's how I met him. She signed papers giving him permission to do anything he found necessary to help me, so he had free reign to do anything he wanted to me with my mother's permission. He would call and tell her, well Claudia needs to come in for a treatment ... bring her in ... or ... have somebody bring her in. She would just drop me off in front of the building ... you know six or seven years old and she would just drop me off at this big huge hospital and I would have to go in and take this elevator up and a woman would come and get me and take me to the room. I would be there for days, sometimes weeks and the next thing I knew I would wake up one morning and Dr. Heath would be standing there and he would say, "well, how are you feeling dear?" "Are you ready to go home?" He would tell me that I was much better and that I wouldn't misbehave anymore and I wouldn't have any clue as to what happened to me while I was there. I would just wake up with no memory of what happened and he would tell me I had been good, and obedient, and it was time to go home. So he would send me home, and he would call my mother if I had like bruises or anything that had to be explained and he would give her some explanation as to how they had happened. Or if I was bleeding he would tell her that they had to do an examination or a test and that had made me bleed. And she didn't question anything, I don't think she really cared. She didn't want to know.

Wayne Morris:

And what about Morse Allen? You mentioned him. From what you remember, what was his involvement?

Claudia Mullen:

He was with the department that was called Science and Technology. I think at one time Martin Orne was the head of that department. He was with ORD, Office of Research and Development, and Morse Allen was the head of that. It was research on a whole bunch of different things, but I know he had a lot to do with radiation because I heard him talk about it, but he also worked with the project which involved me. I remember him pretty much from the beginning ... from 1958 through some time in high school and then I don't remember him any more.

Wayne Morris:

And what about L. Wilson Greene whom you also mentioned ...

Claudia Mullen:

Next to Heath, I guess he had the most authority or whatever you wanted to call it. He was a German doctor. Liam was his first name, but he hated being called anything but Dr. Greene. He was head of Edgewood Arsenal, that's where his office was ... in Fort Dietrich, Maryland but he came to Tulane quite a bit and worked with Dr. Heath on the projects. He told me, when I was about fourteen or fifteen, he told one of my shadows the story ... how he got involved. He said he was Jewish, and he was iin a concentration camp when the war ended and the Nazis had killed his sister and put him in a concentration camp. He had met the Angel of Death there, and that was his hero and he used to love to watch him do experiments on twins and everything ... I didn't know who the Angel of Death was ... I didn't even know who that was. It turned out it was Mengele. Dr. Greene said that he was put in the camp when he was fifteen ... I don't know how long he stayed ... but when the war ended, the United States paid to bring him back to the U.S. and put him through medical school and now they paid him to do these experiments. So he said, your government paid for me to do things to you and he thought our government was made up of fools, everybody was a fool, that they were stupid but he said he got paid by them, so they were the ones who got him out of the camp ...

Wayne Morris:

What you are saying is it seems that L. Wilson Greene, although a victim at the concentration camps under Mengele, had somehow associated himself ... and helped with the experiments ...

Claudia Mullen:

He had gotten in good with Mengele by showing an interest in the experiments they were doing and so it became like ... he wasn't really a prisoner anymore, it was more like he worked as his assistant, almost, even though he was Jewish ... he showed a lot of morbid interest in what they were doing. This was his story ... I don't know if it's true. He told me this ... I don't think he told anyone else ... I think he told everybody different things ... this is the story he told me. He didn't really talk about himself. He didn't seem to have any private life. He didn't seem to have a wife, or children. He seemed to always be travelling from one place to another. I never even knew where he stayed when he was in New Orleans until years later I found out that he stayed at Camp Nichols. I thought he lived at the hospital because he was always there.

Wayne Morris:

Were any of the doctors involved in sexually abusing you while this experimentation was going on?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. A lot of them were. Most of them took advantage of the fact that ... as long as they were there, they had access to ... they would ... you know ... do whatever they wanted. One of the few who didn't was Gottlieb ... I was told it was kind of a joke that was going around that he only liked little boys ... I guess that's why he didn't want anything to do with me. Martin Orne did though. Dr. Greene did a couple of times. Dr. Brown, and of course a lot of the Agency men ... they did. Oh, Hamilton. He was a horrible man. James Hamilton. He was from California I think. Yes, Stanford or .. he was from California and he was involved in projects that had to do with deviant sexual behaviour and ... every time he got a chance, from the time I was eight years old, until in my twenties, he took advantage of it. They even had a tape of him ... he didn't seem to really care though.

Wayne Morris:

What kind of other people were you forced to have sex with in terms of blackmailing, and what were their backgrounds?

Claudia Mullen:

Military people. They had these people called the Inspector Generals that came around. They would go around the country looking at different places where they were doing these projects and they would determine if the money was being well spent or not. So one of the ways they would convince them that the money was being used well was by offering them whoever they wanted. They usually wore uniforms so I knew they were in the military. They were Inspectors. They would say the Inspector is coming, you had better be nice to him, and you had better do whatever he wants. And they always took advantage of you. One was the man with the wings on his jacket. He was a Colonel and I guess he was in the Air Force ... I guess that's why he had wings on his jacket. He was one of the Inspectors that came. Then there was an Admiral that came, he was an Inspector. That was mainly the military men ... they were either present at ... They used to have these things like ... I went to Texas a few times. I went to this placed called "TRIMS" and I remember it had the letters on the outside of the gate and I remember "R" was for Research, "T" was for Texas. I was brought there and they would put on these, not "shows" but I guess they had to show a lot of people, like military, agency people ... the doctors would have to show what progress they were making on the projects. And so they would present different subjects that were being used and show what they were able to accomplish. And you had to get in front of this audience of people, it's like an auditorium and they did things like ... they could create ... one of the things they could do was like ... when you split sometimes ... you can actually cause anaesthesia in your body ... like splitting off that part and you don't feel the pain at the time it is happening, but you feel it later ... and they would do things that would cause a lot of pain but obviously weren't causing pain at the time and everybody would ooh and aahhh over that because it was something they had never seen before. And this was how they would prove they were using the money they were being given. They had to show people that they weren't just spending it on hotel rooms and food and stuff. They had to show they were actually doing research. I remember that distinctly, in Texas, having that being done, where they would inflict pain and you wouldn't feel it. They would put you in a trance under hypnosis, tell you that you couldn't feel this part of your body, put a lit candle on it ... and you wouldn't feel anything. Later on you would feel the burn, but it was a demonstration. I think it was an Air Force base that I was at ... I guess people would fly in.

I wasn't the only one ... like a whole line of people waiting just to go in, and we all had hospital gowns on, and Dr. Heath and Dr. Greene brought me in and they would talk to the audience and say what they were going to do and then ...

Wayne Morris:

I wonder if we can talk about the specific programs that you believed you were involved in that you might have overheard. I know you mentioned MKULTRA. In terms of your experience, what was MKULTRA about, and maybe we could go through some of the other projects ...

Claudia Mullen:

This is how it was kind of explained to me ... not really explained ... but as I overheard them talking about it. Back during WWII when they started all this research stuff, they had a project called BLUEBIRD and they changed the name because there was another branch of the government doing something called BLUEBIRD. So they changed it to ARTICHOKE. The Big A, they called it. They were trying to create amnesia. I think they were going to use it on soldiers but they had to test it on people first. There was a professor who was doing it ... I never met him anything, I just heard them talking about him.

This eventually became MKULTRA. MKULTRA was like the big generic name for all the other projects ... they went under MKULTRA ... MK was supposed to stand for Mind Control. I know the spelling wasn't right but ...

Wayne Morris:

It would be the correct spelling using the German word "kontrol" ...

Claudia Mullen:

Maybe Dr. Gottlieb thought of that then. ULTRA was for the ultimate in the mind control. One time I went to Mexico City briefly to get films of a person there ... MKULTRA 128 they called it ... then it would be sub-project 18, and I was subject #3. After an experiment was over, Dr. Heath and whoever was in charge of it - most of the time it was Dr. Heath because he was in charge of names - he would have to sit down and dictate (like doctors do, you know they dictate their notes about a case into a machine after surgery or something) -- well they would have to do the same thing, because it had to go on the records into the CIA files. Every now and then I would sit there and listen. I was supposed to be sleeping, resting, something ... I would be listening and that part of me that had a photographic memory would be memorizing what they were saying. He would go into this long, detailed explanation of the project they had just done, and every now and then he would say the word "delete" -- ie MKULTRA July 1963 in Mexico City delete. That would mean delete the last thing he just said, because sometimes they didn't want to give too much detail.

There were other projects I wasn't involved in but I overheard them talking about, like MKNAOMI and that had to do with drugs that they used to do different things to soldiers, like they were going to use it on the enemy. They called it the K problem, which was paralysis. I would hear ... Operation Secret was under MKULTRA and that was a project and it had to do with the brain. MKSEARCH - I guess it was germ warfare, biological, and something to do with radiation. MKULTRA - Subproject #3 was to do with safe houses which they used, like the Roosevelt Hotel here in New Orleans -- a place they kept all year round, with cameras, and it was some place safe they could use and not worry about anybody finding out about it. Something to do with hypnosis, radiation or electricity came under ORD (Office of Research and Development) and Martin was Technical Science Director for a long time. Operation CHATTER had to do with giving you drugs to make you talk -- trying different drugs on enemy soldiers to try and make them talk.

Wayne Morris:

What would you like to see done to help yourself and other survivors who have gone through this?

Claudia Mullen:

I would like to see us validated by opening up whatever CIA files remain classified, and I feel like a lot of the information I have given will be there. I know that my name is listed in the files because I actually saw it on a file in 1964. I had access to a file that was left out in a room and my name, Chrystal Stone, was on there and there was a memo that was going to be sent to the Director. I have the feeling that even though they destroyed a lot of the files, there will be some left. Possibly with my name on it. And for the facts that people have given, it will be validation. Even though these people can't be prosecuted, I want the President to acknowledge that it happened and that something should be done about it.

Wayne Morris:

How do you see this coming about? One element is declassifying the files that are still left ...

Claudia Mullen:

I think they should have another Commission -- this time on mind control, specifically on mind control. Have an investigation -- ie. Tuskagee, those experiments. There is supposed to be another Commission that President Clinton is opening on other CIA stuff so I think I would like to see him have a Committee specifically for mind control, and looking in the CIA files specifically for mind control -- especially done on children. Because that's the most horrible part of all this is that they did this to children -- it wasn't just unwitting citizens that got hurt -- they did this to little kids, did these horrible things to children and they didn't think anything of it.They didn't feel any guilt or remorse about it -- I know that.

Wayne Morris:

From what you remember, what is your sense of how many other children were involved?

Claudia Mullen:

I am sure there were thousands and thousands ... I mean just from the amount of children I saw that summer at Deep Creek Lodge in Maryland -- there must have been 75 kids there -- and you can imagine that was just one time that I went -- how many other kids were involved -- and every time they went there, there were another 75 kids and multiply that by times all over the country. You must be talking about thousands. All the kids are grown up now and I think it should be acknowledged that it did happen to us and to make sure that it is not happening any more. How do we know that they are still not doing things like this?

Wayne Morris:

Have you been in contact with other survivors?

Claudia Mullen:

Yes. In contact all the time through the Internet, I meet them at conferences.

Wayne Morris:

And when did you start getting in contact with other survivors?

Claudia Mullen:

Right after Washington. Before that I was just mainly involved in my own therapy and that was the first contact I had with any other survivors, in Washington, D.C. Since then it's been constant contact with people because there would be similarities. They would have similar things that had happened to them that I had talked about. Or just the fact that there were a lot of us who were adopted who were used in these experiments. I am sure there is a reason for that. I am sure there is an inordinate amount of children who were adopted that were used.

Wayne Morris:

What would you want or expect as an outcome if these hearings were held on mind control experiments?

Claudia Mullen:

I want the President to acknowledge -- to come out and tell the world that this did happen, that the government was behind it, that they paid for it, that our tax dollars paid for it. I don't expect much in compensation as far as money, I mean that's not why I am doing it. I don't know if there will be any money but that's not the point. The point is that people need to know that what our government is capable of doing, what they did, and they should own up to it. Most of the people are dead, what's the point of going into it -- but we need to acknowledge that this kind of thing can happen, has happened, document it so that it never happens again so that people aren't living in a Dreamworld where the government doesn't do things like this, not in this country. But they do and they did ... and people need to know that.

Wayne Morris:

What can people who are listening, that may want to help further progress on getting hearings started ...

Claudia Mullen:

Write to the White House, to the President and Mrs. Clinton -- if they have a computer you can e-mail them directly. If everybody were to write and demand there be Hearings on Mind Control Experiments done on children, I think they would have to listen. If victims come forward and say that "I want this looked into" then the files have to be opened, they have to allow people to see what is in the files. There is no reason to keep them classified any more. They need to contact their senators and congressmen, and keep after the President until something is done.

Wayne Morris:

Claudia I would like to thank you very much for joining and being part of this radio series. I know it's ... I consider it extremely brave of you to come forward with your experiences that you have remembered of these horrific experiments that are inexcusable, and I think people do have to make the government accountable for what they have done.

Claudia Mullen:

Thank you Wayne. I definitely agree, and I would be glad to talk to anyone that wants to contact me through the internet. E-mail address cmullen267@aol.com.

Wayne Morris:

Thank you Claudia.

Claudia Mullen:

Thank you Wayne.


We have been listening to an interview with Claudia Mullen a survivor of US government mind control and the Advocacy Committee for Human Experimentation Survivors - Mind Control (ACHES-MC) can be found at www.aches-mc.org.

Contents


Closing Comments from Episodes

We've been listening to an interview with Claudia Mullen, a survivor of mind control experiments done by the U.S. government. She had referred in her presentation in particular to the third person "she". Claudia was actually describing herself either at an earlier age or as a different alter of her multiple personalities. I would like to also announce that this radio series is being re-broadcast on Monday nights at 10pm and this Monday is the 2nd broadcast in the radio series. On the Sunday morning show we are at broadcast 13 this week. Also for people with web access, you can get transcripts of this radio series at www.mk.net/~mcf/ckln-hm.htm.

You have been listening to International Connections here on CKLN FM.

________   

You have been listening to Claudia Mullen, a survivor of government mind control. She has given testimony at the U.S. Presidential Hearings on Human Radiation Experiments in March, 1995. Her accounts include being experimented on, starting when she was eight years old at Tulane University in New Orleans, and subsequently being used as a mind control slave to sexually entrap prominent politicians and officials to blackmail them such as Senator Frank Church who headed the Church Committee Hearings into CIA wrongdoings as we have heard in today's interview. We have also heard her accounts of how Dr. Ewen Cameron was responsible for electro-shocking her so she would forget the weekends of experimentation and the sexual blackmail situations. Stay tuned next week for Part 3 of this interview. Also tune in to Monday nights at 10 pm for rebroadcasts of previous shows on mind control on the International Connection 88.1.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln07.htm

CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 6


Lecture by Dr. Alan Scheflin

The History of Mind Control:
What we can prove and what we can't


Back to CKLN Series Table of Contents
   

From the Ryerson CKLN FM (88.1 in Toronto) Mind Control Series
CKLN-FM 88.1 Toronto the International Connection
Producer/interviewer Wayne Morris


Contents

Part 1
Part 2


Part 1


Alan Scheflin:

... for you in the next two hours, is that mind control is a valid subject, we can prove a good deal of its history and its postulates, and especially in this litigious climate when people argue that therapists and others are crazy in believing in things like mind control, it's my function to show that the subject has validation across several centuries, and especially a rich history in this century. What I want to do is use slides to illustrate my talk, and so if we could lower the lights you'll be able to see the slides better, and let's begin. let me begin. Can we... Yeah. Great. Let me see... {pause} All right. Naturally, the history of mind control begins with the proverbial hole in the head. This is the, an illustration of a trephined skull, the first known medical intervention for mental illness. There are many such skulls that have been recovered from civilizations throughout the world, suggesting that trephining, which is as you can tell an early form of lobotomy, was well-practiced by many ancient civilizations. The reason why the proverbial hole-in- the-head here is important to us, is that this was a therapeutic procedure built upon a medical philosophy, and the philosophy is one of possession. It seems to me that in many ways as I'll suggest to you, these notions have come back again in the twentieth century, and so I thought it appropriate to start with them now. The possession idea carried through well into the Middle Ages, when possession theories of mental illness were prevalent, and cures based on them were equally as prevalent and indeed necessary. This is an illustration of medieval Moon Madness, and some of the dancing episodes that went throughout the Middle Ages. The treatment of choice was exorcism which you seen an illustration of here, if you look all the way over on the left, the woman being held by a group of men, there's a devil coming out of her head. This was, of course, the early equivalent of Multiple Personality Disorder and the notion of possession theory, the body being inhabited by other beings, is an important aspect of dissociation. The theory may have changed somewhat, but there is certainly a direct history from the possession ideas to the dissociation ideas that we experience today. The first, the first real treatise, I think, in mind control, which brought together possession ideas in to a textbook, is THE MALLEUS MALEFICARUM, which is written in 1484, it's called THE WITCH'S HAMMER, and I was interested to note that in the latest issue of, I think, NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE, with the cover story on the brain, there is a one-page description of THE MALLEUS MALEFICARUM by a novelist who wrote a woman's novel based on its terms. THE MALLEUS was used as a bible for witch-hunting, and it tells you how to identify witches and how especially to interrogate them, and how to cure them--the cure usually being killing them--but the value of THE MALLEUS, I think, is two-fold. It is probably the second known text book in history on cross-examination techniques, the first one being THE PLATONIC DIALOGUES. And so, we get in THE MALLEUS, a systemization of the knowledge of how to do interrogations to lead people to give confessions that you want them to give, and so in the history of mind control it plays a very important role, because this is, this is the work that was used by the inquisitors throughout the Middle Ages and thereafter to obtain confessions and indeed false confessions. THE MALLEUS itself then was read by police departments centuries later and used as the beginning of the development of police manual. Let me jump ahead a couple of centuries until last century, the #1800's, with the birth of psychiatry, and it perhaps is no surprise that there is a common link to possession theories and the birth of psychiatry, in that most psychiatric treatments had the same elements of violence that we see in THE MALLEUS and that we see in the exorcism, and beyond that. It's the cast-the-demons-out... I'm gonna run through a series of slides here, all taken from psychiatric text books, on the way in which people were treated. This one is an individual who was chained to a wall, and this is a form of a straitjacket as you can see, where a person is tied directly to a drain pipe in the wall. Here is an early version of the, of the straightjacket itself. It was beliefs that these people were inhabited by demons, and that in order to get those demons out exorcism was replaced either with violence or with severe restraint. But a century ago they also had something that we tend to consider as modern but is not--shock treatment. The shock done, however, was usually a different form than electricity since they had not yet invented electricity. This is a water shock treatment, and another version of it appears here, where an individual is left blind-folded on the platform, suddenly the platform falls from beneath him and he's dumped into a bucket of ice cold water. This was intended to be shocking. Another form of shock treatment was to fire a cannon behind somebody without them knowing that it was gonna happen. Again, the idea was to use a form of violent cure because of a theory of violent possession. Interestingly enough, even electric shock has a history in antiquity. It did not... We did not need the development of electricity to have electric shock.

The ancient Egyptians used to take a torpedo fish and slap it on the forehead of people who were possessed, and the fish would discharge an electric current, and that's the earliest record of electroshock treatment. This is a device that {pause} nobody can ever guess the importance of. It's an ovary compressor, and I'll leave it to your imagination to, to consider how painful it must be to have experienced it. Seclusion in its worst form is the wooden crib here. This is a form of containment in which you can see that person is totally strapped into a crib with no way to move. This, however, was not the worst form of restraint. It took a leading psychiatrist to develop that. This is the rotating chair. A person could last only a few seconds in this chair without becoming nauseous and eventually losing consciousness. And then there was the tranquilizing chair, all of these devices were used in the late #1800's, the last two of them were developed by Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration Of Independence, and his face appears on the seal of the American Psychiatric Association as its founder. It's not my desire to criticize psychiatry here, but rather to make the point, in terms of mind control, that we began studying the human mind and mental illness with a theory of possession and a theory of cure based on violence, and from that we'll see the various refinements. Perhaps the first of the refinements, and the one that's notoriously wrong, was the leading psychological theory of the 1800's, and that is phrenology--that you can measure the exterior of the brian or rather of the skull in order to understand the interior of the mind, and this is an illustration of a phrenologist's chart, the theory being that there is a direct correlation between a person's characteristics as an individual, and their skulls and the lumps and other aspects to be found on the skull. The theory, of course, is completely wrong, but it occupied a good deal of the 1800's and was the leading theory of psychology at that time. It led to further variants in terms of face- reading... The importance of the theory is not that it was wrong, but rather that it led people to begin to try to measure internal states. And so, from an erroneous theory people began to look inside the brain to see how you can find external correlations with the brain, and we come across what I think is the great paradox in all of healing, and that is that the more you learn how to cure people the more you learn how to harm them, and for every step forward in relieving mental illness you can take a step backwards in causing it. And so, for people whose interest is in control of the mind, their data comes from how to help the mind, and so there is no step forward that does not involve equally, in the hands of malevolent people, a step backwards. The idea of mind control turned more serious however and in our concerns more contemporary when we come to hypnosis. This is Hypnos, the Greek god of sleep. Of course, hypnosis is not sleep and so the name itself is deceptive as to the mechanism of hypnosis, but hypnosis began the modern era with Mesmer, whose theories were also wrong not only wrong but plagiarised, on inter planetary or planetary magnetism affecting mental states and so forth. What Mesmer really happened upon without realizing it was the beginning of the idea of the laws of suggestion, and what he did is set up what is called a baquet, and you can see here it's an oak tub from which iron bars extrude, and the French nobility would come and touch the iron bars which were in the tub, the tub was filled with water with iron filings, and people would then have convulsive states which were pleasant enough for them to repeat quite frequently. Some slides of the baquette... This was high society, not only treatment but also entertainment. You can see at the left a woman has fainted. That was quite common. Here's a colour slide of the same kind of event.

Mesmer was, his work was studied by a Presidential Commission or rather a King's Commission. King Louis XVI appointed a special commission to study Mesmerism. At the time it was receiving rave notices from the public and condemnation from medical societies. Here's a cartoon of the time of animal magnetism, you can see the animal doing the hypnosis, and another cartoon debunking animal magnetism. The report that was issued on the work of Mesmer's student des Lond, was highly critical. The commission found that there was nothing to the interplanetary theories and the magnetic theories, but they were then forced to explain why Mesmer got so many curs, and they attributed the cures to the power of imagination, and rather than study the power of imagination as a way to cure individuals, the commission left the issue alone, and it took a hundred years for people to pick up that essential point, that manipulation of the imagination could be used to manipulate the mind. The commission also issued a secondary report that was stamped "eyes only" for the King's eyes only, and in that report the commissioners said that there was an aspect of magnetism that was so dangerous that the practice would be stopped at once. It was a menace to morals, that the attraction that developed between the magnetizer and the subject being magnetized was so great that seductions were inevitable, and therefore we have the first inkling of the relationship between hypnosis and hypnotic seduction in this secret report for the King's eyes only. Mesmer died in disgrace and in exile after the report appeared, and hypnosis, which was still called animal magnetism at the time, fell into disgrace but not into complete abandonment. It wasn't until about fifty or sixty years later that James Braid, a Scottish physician, coined the term hypnosis and hypnotism, and it wasn't until about fifty years after that that hypnosis begins to be studied in a serious way, and the problems of mind control, using hypnosis as the vehicle again resurface. The Victorians were interested in hypnosis 'cause it was fun to be hypnotized. They lacked the joys that we have, such as Geraldo, and so they had to entertain themselves by using hypnosis for their parlour games. And you can see a man here drinking milk out of a saucer on the floor, he had just been hypnotized. And so, stage hypnosis at the turn of the century, from the 1890's to the 1910's and '20's, was one of the most well-known and well-attended and lucrative forms of entertainment. ... just a couple of artifacts from that time. Here's a brochure from a stage hypnotism show. Walter Bodey, an English hypnotist, was perhaps one of the most famous of the stage performers. He had a hypnosis and electrical show. You can see on there that, a statement, "The real Trilby," going back to Svengali. We'll return to that in a moment. This is James Bodey. He lives on in history for a reason people don't remember any more, and that is, he was the inspiration for an extremely young comic who got his start by mimicking Bodey, and here's the young comic, here's the two of them together, Bodey on the right and Charley Chaplain on the left. And so, Charley Chaplain's career began by studying Bodey's mechanisms and his mannerisms on stage, and then making comedy of them. During the middle... During the Victorian era people's exposure to hypnosis was not only as a form of entertainment, but it seemed like a form of mind control as well. You could get people to do anything that you asked of them. You could have them be suspended between two chairs, you could even stand on them when they were suspended between two chairs, and you could do a lot worse as well. If you're sensitive, please don't watch the next two slides. This is an iron bar held by eyelets, put into the eye lids of a subject, and this a stage hypnotist in Georgia, and as if that isn't bad enough to suspend an iron bar from the eye lids, he took it one step further and then pulled a young woman on roller skates. So, it's not always fun to be hypnotized, and some people have taken the idea of stage hypnosis, it seems to me, far beyond where it should be entitled to go. One of those people is Barry Konnikoff, who traffics under the name of Potentials Unlimited. In one of his later... He has self-hypnosis tapes which were available all over the place. I've heard he's gone bankrupt now and I certainly hope that's true. In his later round of tapes he argued that women who have been sexually abused or raped deserve it because of what they did in prior lives. Now, the First Amendment perhaps protects that. On the other hand, it is... There aren't words that would describe a person who would make money out of that kind of a theory, so I won't waste our time on him. I want to get back to the central theme of mind control, which starts with Jean Martin Charcot, who was the foremost neurologist of the time. While the stage hypnotists were persuading people that minds could be controlled by hypnosis, the professionals were learning hypnosis as well, and they were learning it largely from a small group of people, the most influential of whom was Charcot. Charcot, as the greatest neurologist in Europe at the time, was frequently visited by kings and princes and certainly all of the most elite of the medical profession from around the world, and in his clinic at La Sault Petrier in Paris, he would demonstrate hypnotic phenomena. He would, in his demonstrations, induce neurotic symptoms in people. People who came in with an inability to move one limb, in hypnosis would be able to move that limb, but he would transfer the neurotic symptom to the other limb, and so he could create and destroy and eliminate and transpose neurotic conditions, and this was a remarkable demonstration which impressed a number of people in the audience, but his theories were at odds with his major contemporaries, le Beau who was on the left and HipoHypolee Bernheim who was, on the right. There was in France at the time, this second school of thought about hypnosis. Charcot believed that people who could be hypnotized were hysterics and that hypnosis was a form of hysterical dissociation. Bernheim, based on the work of le Beau and his own work thereafter, believed that hypnosis was a form of suggestion, and that the manipulation of suggestion did not need a former neurotic condition. Here's Bernheim. Bernheim and Charcot often appeared against each other in a series of criminal cases that appeared throughout France, on the issue of the anti- social production of crime with hypnosis. A person who studied from both of these people and was influenced by both of them was Sigmond Freud. This is a picture of him on his wedding day, and a better-known portrait of him in his old age, and then the infamous couch. In his London office over the couch Freud had a picture of Charcot's demonstration, doing the demonstration that I showed you a few slides back. Let me get to that. This was the, a picture that hung over the couch in Freud's office in England. Now, Freud was very much influenced by the hypnosis theories, and worked with hypnosis for a year, but then abandoned it, and it wasn't clear why he did abandon hypnosis. Some theorists have argued, and I think correctly, that he was a lousy hypnotist, {laughter from audience} and that seemed to be true, and he couldn't, as a result, get deep enough trances to have effect on his patients. Other theorists have argued, and Freud's own writings tend to support a secondary hypothesis, and that is that Freud was scared of the seductive power of hypnosis, that the ability to move people into altered states of consciousness gave a feeling to the hypnotist of some such omnipotence that it was in itself seductive. And Freud wrote that in one of his patients, as soon as the hypnotic encounter had ended she jumped up and threw her arms around him and hugged and kissed him, and he did not attribute that to his handsome demeanour. He said it must be some other force at work and it so frightened him, he said, that he never used hypnosis again. And I think that he's harking back to the Mesmer Commission's noticing that there is a manipulative power in hypnosis that the subject may not be able to resist, but also the hypnotizer may not be able to resist as well. Bernheim, by the way, and Albert Muhl, a German hypnotist in the 1880's and the 1890's, had already given the world the false memory syndrome. They called it retroactive hallucinations at the time, and they wrote quite openly in their works that they were concerned that through the power of suggestion you could create an impenetrable witness for a court of law. That by hypnotizing somebody, you could induce them to tell a false story, that story would be impervious to cross- examination, because the individual would sincerely believe in the truth of what he or she was saying, and therefore you would never be able to effectively cross- examine that person, because they would continually insist on the truth of what they were reporting. And so, by the early 1890's the phenomenon of false memory had already been noted and been written about extensively, and its application for courts of law had already been written about. There is absolutely nothing new in the false memory issue. It is simply a failure to read the literature from a hundred years ago. What's more important is, where are we gonna go from now with false memory, and I think the answer is where we have already come from a hundred years ago. The next step beyond false memory was the beginning to use these techniques deliberately for purpose of mind control. And essentially the first steps are taken by A. R. Luria in his institute in Moscow. Luria reasoned that if you can get people to have false confessions with hypnosis, you probably could build affective complexes on those false confessions. In other words, you could not only get people to report things that never happened, you could get them to experience the entire range of emotions affiliated with those events. And so, Luria and his colleagues in Moscow in the 1920's began doing research on developing neuroses built upon the implantation of false memories. That work was replicated in the 1930's by Milton Erikson, Lawrence Cubey, and others, who verified the truth of what Luria was reporting. Now, Luria's work was not merely academic. It had its operational uses in the next decade in the Moscow Show Trials, which are an extremely important historical event for our purposes. During the Moscow Show Trials, Stalin purged his old enemies. Now, one way you can do that is simply have them disappear, or you could have public executions. It is generally true throughout histories that regimes try to improve their own legitimacy by discrediting their predecessors. Stalin's way of doing it was to put on trial all his former friends, and what was different about the Moscow Show Trials is that when these defendants went on trial they not only confessed to a series of crimes and sins, they could not possibly have committed, but they begged to be shot as enemies of The State. Some recent books on the prosecutor's role in programming during the Moscow Show Trials have added some new information to our understanding of them. It was at this point that American intelligence agencies began to take notice of the mind control potential that seemed to be apparent from the Moscow Show Trials. The actual paper record though is hard to trace from the 1930's, easier to trace from the 1940's, and the trial that ultimately set the C.I.A. off on its investigation of mind control was the trial of Cardinal Mindszenty.

Mindszenty was a staunch anti-Communist who was then arrested by the Communists and put in the Androsi Street Prison in Hungary. The... Six months later he was put on trial, and as his predecessors a decade before, he confessed to crimes and sins that could not possibly have been true. These are a series of slides showing him at trial. The experience of Mindszenty was so frightening to American intelligence agencies, that they began to investigate whether or not the Soviets possessed some new form of mind control unknown to The West.

Here two stories develop that are both true and completely contradictory. In secret C.I.A. files you will find both of these stories validated. On the one hand the C.I.A. argued that it was afraid that it was losing the war for control of the mind, and that the Soviets had developed this new, sophisticated psychology or whatever to control the way people think and act, and that America had to catch up. We were on the defensive now and we had to, a lot of work that had to be done. One the other hand, in a document that was extremely highly classified, eyes-only for the Director of the C.I.A.'s Eyes-only, it turned out that there was a spy in the Androsi Street Prison who was reporting back to the C.I.A. everything that was happening to Mindszenty, and this Eyes-only report which I've read is a wonderful document. It details exactly what happened to Mindszenty. It names the Soviet hypnotists who did the work and the drugs that they used to assist them in that work. It's a step-by-step manual for the programming of Mindszenty. And what's particularly interesting is if you read Cardinal Mindszenty's autobiography of the events, he really doesn't know what happened to him, and at this point the C.I.A. had a better knowledge of the programming of Mindszenty than he had of his own programming. And so, on the one hand the Soviets, the C.I.A. knew everything that the Soviets were doing, yet on the other hand they were reporting that they were afraid that they were losing the war, and I think both of those stories are true, though they're contradictory, and both are supported by secret C.I.A. documents. Meanwhile, a related event begins to happen. In the late 1940's, Edward Hunter in 1949 for the first time coins the term, "brain washing," and writes a book on it. This is one of the two books that Hunter wrote. It turned out that Hunter was an O.S.S. and later C.I.A. propagandist, and the word brainwashing was particularly useful because American prisoners of war were starting to give confessions of using germ warfare during the Korean War, and America needed a way of stopping that kind of propaganda, and the term brainwashing which had been coined by Hunter to explain the thought control programme in Communist China proved a useful vehicle. This is Edward Hunter. I was able to do one of the last interviews with him before his death. In the deep literature on brainwashing, the more academic literature on brainwashing, his view of it is called The Robot Theory, the notion that with brainwashing techniques you can turn somebody into an automaton. The Robot Theory of brainwashing is not the only theory of brainwashing, but it is the most flamboyant and it's also the most frightening. The idea of brainwashing then in the 1950's became the object of a lot of study and books like IN EVERY WAR BUT ONE, people who had actually gone through the experience wrote about what had happened to them and researchers like Biederman in books like this were reporting what happened to American prisoners of war and other prisoners of war. In Hawaii, an American camp was set up to be a mock prisoner of war camp to use the techniques that were being used of brainwashing. This an illustration from that camp. These are actually all Americans, but it's a simulated exercise in brainwashing because Americans were searching for a way to inoculate our soldiers if they should get captured and put through a brainwashing experience. Would it have been possible for us to inoculate them previously so that the brainwashing would not take? While the brainwashing studies were going on, another development was happening simultaneously important to the development of mind control, and these are the sensory deprivation experiments that began in Canada with Donald Hebb and others. It was... Hebb's original work was essentially on what's called highway trance, the phenomena that people who will drive on highways in long stretches of road that's pretty monotonous will to into trance. And this is a form of sensory deprivation, if you've got... If it's dark at night, there's a long road, there's no scenery, you probably all have had the experience of realizing that suddenly you've driven a couple of miles but have no memory for that couple of miles passing, or you've gotten very drowsy. Well, the phenomenon of sensory deprivation became the subject of a good deal of study in the 1950's. What would happen to the mind if it were deprived of sensory input, since the mind needs sensory input the way the body needs food? And in a series of studies, this is on isolation, inside the black room, students across the country in Canada and other places were put in a black room. Here's an illustration of it. There's essentially almost no sensory input at all. What happens to the mind? Floatation tanks and other ways of decreasing sensory input, all had the effect of causing the mind when it is deprived of sensory input to throw out a hallucinated world in order to get input back from that hallucinated world. And people, in fact, kept in isolation too long could become psychotic.

Books studying the phenomena of isolation and also in conjunction with manipulating people's mind through techniques of brainwashing began to appear. THE BRAIN BENDERS is one, THE BATTLE FOR THE MIND by William Sergent is the foremost British book on the subject. Robert J. Lifton's study, THOUGHT REFORM AND THE PSYCHOLOGY OF TOTALISM is the classic work on the Chinese thought reform programme. Edgar Shein's book on coercive persuasion on the Americans taken prisoner in the Korean War, RAPE OF THE MIND by Mirrileau, another classic. As all of this was happening, this was what you could call a form of coercive persuasion as Shein had suggested, but there was another event that was occurring simultaneously. The 1950's is, in many ways, the birth of mind control experimentation, because you have the brainwashing issue, the hypnosis issues, the isolation and sensory deprivation studies, and you now get the next stream of research, which involves obedience to authority studies. I mentioned the other night Solomon Ashe's studies on opinions and social pressure, and what Ashe did at Yale was the simplest of experiments on conformity. He drew on a blackboard a line that was one foot long and another line directly under it, parallel to it, that was two feet long. He then got six or seven people in a room, all of whom except one had been bribed, and the last one had no knowledge of the bribing of the others. He then asked them in order which one was the shorter line, and to the horror of the one who was not bribed, everyone reported that the two-foot line was the shorter line, and it was visually obvious that that was untrue, but everybody else in the room was reporting it as true. And what Ashe discovered was that the subject would report seeing the longer line as the shorter line, that he would conform to peer pressure. Cynics dismissed it on the grounds that it just showed the stupidity of Yale graduates, {slight laughter from audience} but that was not a sufficient scientific explanation, and as Walter reported the other night the experiments were done in the Navy and other places as well. Now, I want to distinguish this group of work from the others that I've just reported on. Here we're talking about a form of manipulation of the mind that does not involve physical coercion. In the brainwashing work, in the isolation work, there is a form of physical intimidation that involves taking over the body and controlling the body, controlling all of the input in the mind and so forth, and so this is... A person in that situation that he or she is in that situation, that they are captive in some way. With this kind of experiment, we have what I call conversational persuasion. This is the beginning of the attempt to develop theories of social influence on free- standing populations where people are not aware that they are being held captive in any way, and indeed they're not. The next step along the lines of obedience research, and some ways the most frightening, is the work done by Milgrim and his book OBEDIENCE TO AUTHORITY. If you're not familiar with Milgrim's work I'll give you a very brief explanation of it. Milgrim wanted to test the hypothesis that people in Germany, good people in Germany, during the Nazi regime, were manipulated in a way to do evil, or let me restate that, Milgrim wondered why so many good people in Nazi Germany could allow such evil to happen around them knowingly. And his thesis was not the idea that there's something inherent in the German character, but rather that there's something inherent in people, and he was interested in showing whether or not if a Hitler-type character arose in the United States, that person would be able to get good people to do evil in this country. And so, he built a box, I don't have a slide of it here, he built a box with thirty switches, just little light switches, and the thirty switches were in fifteen-volt increments. They were marked in fifteen-volt increments. As you moved over towards the right of the box there began to be some writing which said, "Caution! Danger! Extreme danger!," and the last group of switches were marked in triple red X's. Now, he then put an advertisement, again this is at Yale, so you know, maybe the cynics are right. He put an advertisement in the local New Haven newspaper for people to volunteer for the experiment. People came in and they were told that the experiment involved pain and learning, and that they would be the teachers, and that there was a student and that they could see the student, and the student they were told was hooked up to an electric grid, and every time that... The teacher was to give the student a question, and every time the student gave a wrong answer one of the switches was to be pushed. When Milgrim and his associates talked about the experiment, they concluded that nobody would push all the switches, and most people would stop pushing the switches about halfway through, because each switch was intended to deliver a higher voltage shock. The subject as about half the switches were pulled, would increasingly flinch and then scream and then yell, would then say, "I don't want to do this any more," would then say, "I have a heart condition! Please stop!," and then would refuse to answer any question and would slump over. If the teacher balked at pushing the next switch, there was an experimenter there in a long, white laboratory coat with a clipboard and a pencil, who was instructed to say first, "Continue," and then, "Please continue," and then, "You must go on with the experiment," and finally, "I will take responsibility." And what Milgrim discovered is that the overwhelming number of people pushed all of the switches, and that the simple reenforcement of saying, "I will take responsibility," or that there was an experiment going on, was sufficient to allow them to do that. Now after Milgrim's experiments were replicated in other places, and what eventually evolved is that the horror of what he was proving was so ghastly that the scientific literature turned away from it and instead focussed on the ethics of doing that kind of experiment. Because after all, what he was doing was taking people from the street and not telling them that they were what he was studying. They thought he was studying the subject. And a lot of these people as you can imagine had severe emotional reaction once they realized that they had shocked somebody with a heart condition on a machine that went beyond extreme danger to triple X's in red, and so the ethics of doing that type of work then created a movement in universities and other places for institutional reviews boards, etc., and the research can't be done any more, and what Milgrim was proving, how easy it is to manipulate people by the simplest of commands, was no longer being studied and certainly not in that manner. But books like COMPLIANT BEHAVIOUR: BEYOND OBEDIENCE TO AUTHORITY, were being written to increase and replicate and extend the work of Milgrim, and here's a report called CONFORMITY, COMPLIANCE AND CONVERSION, from the Air Force in I think around the 1950's, an Air Force report using Milgrim's work in Air Force conditioning. Let's go back and talk some more about hypnosis since it plays a central in the rest of the development of mind control. Let me say that also, given the nature of the subject of mind control, there are a lot of things I'm not talking about. I'm not gonna be talking to you about the physiological aspects of mind control, to take you through the lobotomy and psycho- surgery and electrical-stimulation-of-the-brain literature, and I won't be talking about the pharmacological aspects of mind control, the use of drugs and botanicals and chemicals for mind control, you know, but that should give you an idea of how vast the subject is. We're just concentrating here on the psychological aspects of mind control. All right. The notion of hypnotic seduction had been noticed in the secret report to the King in France, it had been noticed by Freud in his work, and it had been noticed by many others--a series of slides on hypnotic seduction. The idea of hypnotic seduction got, I think, its greatest impetus in an #1894 book called TRILBY. And this is illustration from it with the infamous Svengali as the hypnotist, and to this day the portrait of Svengali as a hypnotist is almost as powerful as Sherlock Holmes as a detective. It's almost the stereotype of the field. Trilby, today, would be a No. #1. best-seller, the equivalent of a No. #1. best-seller, and even bigger. It was probably the first block-buster novel. It was published in a magazine in serial form, and after the first issue appeared the magazine had to print an additional one hundred thousand copies because of the desire for people to continue the story. It... The author, George du Maurier, was launched into such public light that he ultimately hid from all, in order to preserve his privacy. He had lecture tours through the United States and Britain. Do you remember PATEN PLACE, how huge a novel that was at the time? This was the equivalent and even bigger. The story of TRILBY is the story of a hypnotist who gets total control over the personality of a young woman, and the novel itself I find to be incredibly boring, but the portrait of portrayed of the hypnotist is tremendously exciting and has lived on almost as an icon of the subject itself. There was a town in Florida, and I haven't checked to see whether this is still true, that changed its name to Trilby, and at the centre of town they have Svengali Square. There were TRILBY parties, TRILBY hats, TRILBY clothes. It was an enormously popular and influential novel, which introduced people to the idea of the potential for hypnotic seduction, and also even worse. Let me... Since I don't want to dwell on this aspect of mind control, let me sum it up and say that the traditional thinking has been that you cannot get people to do with hypnosis what they would not otherwise do. There is value in that thinking, because it then doesn't encourage people to try, but if you go and talk to the hypnotists who will tell you that and you talk to them in private, they will tell you the opposite story, that within certain parameters you can get people to do things they would otherwise not do, with hypnosis, and that while hypnosis is not a magic wand or a magic potion, it is an effective facilitator for seduction or anti-social conduct. There is an increase in court cases of hypnotic seduction now, but I want to turn to the more frightening prospect of using hypnosis for the creation of anti-social crimes. Can you get... "You are in my power, you will do what I tell you." How far can you get control of somebody using hypnosis and forms of social influence? This has been the subject of a lot of fiction, just from my library here are some of the books. THE DARKER THE NIGHT, WAS THE HYPNOTIST THE KILLER, SEEING IS BELIEVING, YOUR EYELIDS ARE GROWING HEAVY, MURDER IS SUGGESTIVE, TELEFON, which of course is a movie as well. And there are academic books like HYPNOTISM AND CRIME. Interestingly there has been no major work on the anti- social aspects of hypnosis either in the legal literature or in the psychiatric, hypnotic, or psychological literature for over thirty years. 1960 is the last time we have a full discussion of the issue of hypnotic coercion, and 1972 was the last time a hypnosis journal directed itself primarily to that issue. The texts suggest that there are cases in which people, through hypnosis, have been induced to commit crimes, but the hypnosis community has been divided as to whether those are pure cases. There is what I call the methodological dilemma that arises at this point. If you... Usually the hypnotic encounter requires a certain amount of time and a certain amount of trust, and so hypnosis researchers argue that it's not hypnosis that facilitates either seduction or the production of anti-social acts, rather it is the relationship between the hypnotist and the subject, and therefore hypnosis is not at fault. The experimentalists discount any clinical, anecdotal material, because it's not rigorously scientific and therefore can't prove the conclusion of hypnotic coercion. But the experimental literature itself is discounted, because as Albert Muhl wrote a hundred years ago and Martin Orne has written as well, at some level a subject always knows that he or she is participating in an experiment. And so, there is no way to test the validity of the hypothesis, that you can induce through hypnosis anti-social conduct. On the other hand, such conduct is produced on a regular basis whatever the explanation. The one place where the studies were done, where there was no fear of ethical violation or legal consequences, was in work done by the Central Intelligence Agency, and since the work has never been fully published, I have an article that will be coming out in THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL HYPNOSIS, on the C.I.A. hypnosis experiments. It's not my function here to criticize the intelligence agencies or to condemn what they have done. I'm instead trying to argue the point that the hypnosis community in general and psychologists and psychiatrists as well, need to know the data that was produced and which still exists in C.I.A. files. If we are going to be accused by the false memory people of using undue suggestion to get people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, we need to know the limits of those possibilities, and that material is in C.I.A. files, therapists are being sued across the country, they need access to that information to help defend themselves. And so, it is in the spirit of science and in the spirit of protecting therapists and patients, you know, for the good of the country, that I present this material so that we can hope that the full amount of it is ultimately revealed. I also must make a caveat. I can only report on information that I've seen, either through my search of C.I.A. files and my interviews with C.I.A. hypnotists and other hypnotists. There may be mistakes in what I present. I cannot correct that unless I have access to all of the material. And so, if I have made a mistake, it is a mistake that comes from not being given the material. Of course, I have in good faith worked through the material I have to tell as accurate a story as I know how. The C.I.A. began experimenting as soon as it was born in the late 1940's. The experimentation in mind and behaviour control had already begun in the O.S.S. with hypnosis experiments, truth cerems, truth tablets, and lethal pills, as well as other kinds of experiments, but it was after the Cardinal Mindszenty episode that the C.I.A. began to really become concerned about the possibility of hypnotic coercion, and let me quote to you from a C.I.A. document at the time. This is a February 10, 1951, C.I.A. Top Secret Memo, called DEFENSE AGAINST SOVIET MEDICAL INTERROGATION AND ESPIONAGE TECHNIQUES, "Hypnotism has been reported to have been used in some cases by the Soviets as an adjunct to interrogation. It would be possible for a skilled Soviet operator to lower a prisoner's resistance to questioning, and yet leave him with no specific recollections of having been interrogated. With respect to inducing specific action on the part of a subject by hypnotism, it would be possible to brief a prisoner or other individual, subsequently dispatch him on a mission, and successfully debrief him on his return, without his recollection of the whole proceeding." A June 1951 C.I.A.Memo says, "C.I.A. interest is in the specific subject of devising scientific methods for controlling the minds of individuals." And so, in the late 1940's some essentially uncontrolled experimentation was begun by various people within the C.I.A., and a more structured programme was also undertaken which had the name Blue Bird, and that name was then changed to Artichoke, and under Projects Blue Bird and Artichoke the attempt was made to bring together all known knowledge of interrogation techniques, truth serums, polygraphs, and hypnosis, to create essentially an elite interrogation team with facility in all of those endeavours, and have them do the work that would be needed, first of all to protect against infiltration by enemy agents, and also to protect the minds of American agents who might get captured by Communist individuals.

Contents


Part 2


Wayne Morris:

We have been in the middle of an extended series on mind control here on the International Connection. This is Week #11, and we have heard so far, if you haven't been listening for the last few months a lecture by Dr. Colin Ross and an interview with him about the U.S. government CIA and military use and creating Manchurian Candidates by creating Multlple Personality Disorder. We also heard testimony given at the Human Radiation Hearings ... survivors of this ... and we also heard the story of Ronald Howard Cohen, writer and activist who was abducted and drugged by CIA military. We are hearing this week, a lecture Part Two of a lecture given by Dr. Alan Scheflin, and this is entitled "The History of Mind Control: What we can prove and what we can't". This was given back in 1995 in Dallas, Texas at a conference and we are going to listen to Part Two today.

Alan Scheflin:

It is not my function here to criticize the Intelligence Agencies or condemn what they have done. I am instead trying to argue the point that the hypnosis community in general and psychologists and psychiatrists as well need to know the data that was produced and still exists in CIA files. If we are going to be accused by the False Memory people of using undue suggestion to get people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, we need to know the limits of those possibilities and that material is in CIA files. Therapists are being sued across the country. They need access to that information to help defend themselves. And so, it is in the spirit of science and in the spirit of protecting therapists and patients, and for the good of the country, that I present this material so we can hope that the full amount of it is ultimately revealed.

I also must make a caveat. I can only report on information that I have seen, either through my search of CIA files and my interviews with CIA hypnotists and other hypnotists. There may be mistakes in what I present. I cannot correct that unless I have access to all of the material. If I have made a mistake, it is a mistake that comes from not being given the material because I have in good faith worked through the material I have to tell as accurate a story as I know how.

The CIA began experimenting as soon as it was born in the late 1940's. The experimentation in mind and behavior control had already begun in the OSS with hypnosis experiments, truth serums, truth tablets, lethal pills as well as other kinds of experiments, but it was after the Cardinal Josef Mindszenty episode that the CIA began to really become concerned about the possibility of hypnotic coercion. Let me quote to you from a CIA document at the time.

This is a February 10, 1951 CIA top secret memo called 'Defence Against Soviet Medical Interrogation and Espionage Techniques': "Hypnotism has been reported to have been used in some cases by the Soviets as an adjunct to interrogation. It would be possible for a skilled Soviet operator to lower the prisoner's resistance to questioning yet leave him with no specific recollections of having been interrogated. With respect to inducing specific action on the part of the subject by hypnotism, it would be possible to brief a prisoner or other individual, subsequently despatch him on a mission and successfully debrief him on his return, without his recollection of the whole proceeding." A June, 1951 CIA memo says, "CIA interest is in the specific subject of devising scientific methods of controlling the minds of individuals."

In the late 1940's, some essentially uncontrolled experimentation was begun by various people within the CIA, and a more structured program was also undertaken which had the name BLUEBIRD and that name was then changed to ARTICHOKE, and under projects BLUEBIRD and ARTICHOKE, the attempt was made to bring together all known knowledge of interrogation techniques, truth serums, polygraphs and hypnosis to create essentially an elite interrogation team with facility in all of those endeavours, and have them do the work that would be needed. First of all, to protect against infiltration by enemy agents, and also to protect the minds of American agents who might get captured by Communist individuals.

In the early 1950's, Walter Smith, the Director of Central Intelligence in an EYES ONLY MEMO said he wanted to know the issue in order to know the answer to the question, "...whether effective practical techniques exist whereby an individual can be caused to become subservient to an imposed control, and subsequently that individual be unaware of the event." The purpose of the CIA experiments by the early 1950's was to discover the ways to control the minds of individuals. BLUEBIRD and ARTICHOKE were only one part of it. There were other parts as well.

The CIA's facility in Langley did not exist at that time. They used office buildings throughout the Washington area, and safe houses around the country and throughout the world. Eventually in 1953 we get a new program from the CIA which is the most expansive mind control program in the history of the world. It's genesis begins in 1953 with a speech given by Allen Dulles who was the new CIA Director. In his speech, Dulles said that we were losing control of the battle of the mind, that we were at war with the Soviet Union. He called it brain warfare, and the Soviets possessed knowledge with the United States did not. A top-secret memo two months later in June, 1953 states, "...interrogations of the individuals who had come out of North Korea across the Soviet Union to freedom recently, apparently had experienced a blank period or a period of disorientation while passing through a special zone in Manchuria." By 1953 in other words, the notion of the Manchurian Candidates in almost those exact terms, had been theorized by the CIA. I will come back to that point in a moment, but in Dulles' public speech on April 10, 1953 to Princeton Alumni in Hotsprings, West Virginia, he argued we had to do something to make sure we did not lose the war with the Soviet Union. About a week and a half later, he signed into law what was called MKULTRA. Walter Bowart has speculated, and I think it is a good speculation, that the MK stands for Mind Kontrol, and ULTRA was the code name given to breaking the Japanese and German codes, and so this was the code name given to breaking the code of the human mind. MKULTRA was the umbrella for 149 sub-projects. All of them were under the auspices of Sidney Gottlieb, and later directed by his boss, Richard Helms. The 149 sub-projects -- you can read something about this in government documents. This is a project MKULTRA from a Joint Hearing from the United States Senate and some of the material has been made public by the Congress. Other material has not been made public but the existence of MKULTRA is not a secret, and its contours are known to some extent. Another government document explores the same territory. This one is on biomedical and behavioral research by the government.

The goal of all 149 sub-projects was mind and behavior control. Some of them involved botanical. Some of them involved psychosurgery and electrical stimulation of the brain. 9 of the sub-projects involved hypnosis. Some of the sub-projects involved things like voodoo. One of them involved circumcision to create anxiety and then manipulate the anxiety. Almost anything you could think of and things you wouldn't think of were funded and studied. Maybe more one of the more well known studies, and one of the more notorious is the work that was done by Ewen Cameron in Canada. Cameron was the President of the Canadian Psychiatric Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the World Psychiatric Association. In his work at the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal he had a theory that sounds unique but actually exists in "Brave New World Revisited" and even goes back to the Ancient Greeks -- his notion was that you could completely erase personality by regressing an individual back to an infantile state - process he called de-patterning. Then you could program that individual with a new personality - a process he called psychic driving. In order to destroy the original personality, Cameron put his subjects to sleep for up to two months, injected them with LSD, mescaline and other psychoactive chemicals, and essentially engaged in a form of regression therapy. Age regression may be a hypnotic phenomenon, but in this sense regression was an actual regression. This was the attempt to manipulate people back to a state of infantilism. These were people who came to him who were depressed ... this was the local psychiatric institute. This is where you went when you needed help. One of the people who came to him, I don't have a slide of her, but I have done some TV shows with her, was the wife of a Member of the Canadian Parliament, Val Orlikow was her name. She is dead now. Val had just had a baby and she was suffering from post-partum depression. This meant she didn't feel she was able to care for her baby, or for herself, and in general she was feeling unequal to the task of wifehood and motherhood, and her husband suggested maybe she could benefit from some psychiatric care, and she thought that was a good idea. They made the mistake of winding up going to Ewen Cameron and Cameron destroyed her life. She along with 10 or 11 other people ultimately sued the Canadian government and the CIA because the CIA contributed funding to Cameron's experiments. SIXTY MINUTES did a show on this that I show from time to time. One of the people went there because he was feeling badly, and he went through the same kind of process, and they later discovered he had a minor skin disease and a single shot of cortisone would have cured it. His life was ruined, and as he put it, "Where do I go for help? I don't trust any psychologists, or psychiatrists or therapists any more after what they did to me, and I know I need their help, but I am programmed to not trust them, so where do I go for relief?"

The experiments have been written about in detail in a number of books. This is the least reliable, Gordon Thomas' "Journey Into Madness". Harder to find, a Canadian book "I Swear By Apollo" is more accurate. Perhaps the best of the books is Anne Collins', "In the Sleep Room". In some ways the most compelling and the most, I wouldn't want to say important, but the one that is most emotional perhaps, is Harvey Weinstein's, "A Father, A Son and the CIA". This is the Canadian edition. There is a slightly revised version printed by the American Psychiatric Press, "Psychiatry and the CIA". Harvey's father was one of those people who was depressed and went into the Allen Memorial Institute as a human being and came out as a vegetable. He never did become a whole human being again. Indeed, it was what happened to his father that led Harvey into psychiatry and Harvey's conclusion is something that should be read by everybody in the mental health field. "After all of the knowledge of the CIA experiments, and the Army experiments and Air Force and Navy experiments have come out, after all of what we know ... NOT A SINGLE RESEARCHER HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO A SINGLE LAW SUIT OR EVEN CENSURE BY A PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR WORK THAT WAS CLEARLY ILLEGAL AND CLEARLY UNETHICAL, EVEN AT THE TIME. THE MESSAGE MUST BE, IF THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES TO DOING THIS KIND OF WORK, THE WORK WILL CONTINUE." And indeed, this is most likely what has happened. Harvey's conclusion is that if the professional organizations are not going to step up and condemn this kind of experimentation, then it will be repeated and other generations will suffer the horror that his family suffered.

Cameron's experiment was simply considered a part of a series of brainwashing tests to regress people back to this infantile state. Now the Greeks had sleep temples that had a similar focus, but modern technology added to Cameron's work. He used a tape loop. He would interview an individual. You have heard about Erikson's "power words" ... Cameron would use words that were important to his patients, and he would program those words in messages that he would construct on tape loops that would be played into their brain one half a million, to a million to a million and a half times ... in fact these people were quite literally "programmed".

In a state of infantilism Cameron wrote that they could endure sensory deprivation indefinitely, whereas most people would crack in about 8 hours, those people could stay there indefinitely. The psychic driving in which the tape loops were used was the attempt to reconstruct the personality and I wondered where such a fiendish idea would have come from and I found it in a 1951 science fiction novel called "The Demolished Man" by Alfred Bester, and if you are a science fiction buff I certainly encourage you to find that book and read it. Basically the theory of the novel is that when somebody commits a crime, that shows a certain boldness that society should appreciate, but it's in the wrong direction. What they do is take criminals to the hospital and they regress them back to infantilism and then they re-build a new personality -- exactly the idea that Cameron was working on with his subject had been written about a few years before he began as a science fiction novel. I won't ever know if he had read that novel, but the studies from his work shows that it did not work and indeed it caused a great deal of pain to a great number of people.

The idea of manipulating people with hypnosis in ways that are effective, and in ways that are quite bizarre, was born in the brain of George Estabrooks. Estabrooks, a very interesting character, was working in Morton Prince's laboratory at Harvard in the 1920's and he had the idea that if you could cure a multiple personality with hypnosis, maybe you could create one with hypnosis. Why in the world would anyone want to create a multiple personality? Estabrooks had the solution. You could create then, a super spy or a super assassin, somebody who would do the bidding of his country and have no knowledge that he was engaged in those acts. Estabrooks said in 1928 that "...my views are somewhat different than most psychologists. I believe the hypnotist's power to be unlimited, or rather only to be limited by his intelligence and his scruples." In the 1920's he went around trying to convince the military to create hypnotically controlled individuals, create a multiple personality and use that one as a courier. They thought he was crazy and ignored him until the Moscow Show Trials, and then they took him seriously, and in the archives of his work at Colgate ... there is a notation that he stopped publishing in the mid-1930's because his work had then become classified. If you read his book, this is Morton Prince's "Dissociation of a Personality" ... the classic work on multiple personality ... if you read Estabrooks' book "Hypnotism" through its various editions, what you discover is that each edition is more assertive about the validity of creating hypnotically programmed couriers and finally in an interview he gave in a local Rhode Island newspaper in 1963, he claims that, "... this is not science fiction, it is fact, I have done it." Working for the FBI and the CIA, he would create a multiple personality, program that personality to be a courier, send that personality somewhere in the world have them return and be amnesic for all of that.

The idea may have originated with Estabrooks but he may not have been the first to actually publish it as such. Writing in "The Psychoanalytic Review" of 1947, Major Harvey Leavitt of the U.S. Army Medical Corps described the hypnotic creation of a secondary personality, "... hypnotically induced automatic writing was established early in the course of treatment as a means of expeditiously gaining access to unconscious material. After this procedure as utilized for a time, a hypnotic secondary personality was produced by suggesting that the writing was under control of a certain part of his personality unaware to him." Leavitt then said that he created another personality in direct contrast to the one already established so he could work the two created personalities off against one another. He concluded, "... regardless of whether the production of multiple personalities by means of hypnosis could be construed as additional proof that hypnosis is an artificially induced hysteria or whether the multiple personalities were artificial entities resulting from direct suggestions ... there exists a close relationship with personalities spontaneously arising in hysterical dissociation. The importance of producing multiple personalities experimentally lies in the fact that certain elements of the original personality may be isolated which manifest a minimum of censorship influences and thus may serve as helpful ajuncts in hypno- analysis."

That was not the purpose for the intelligence agencies in working with the idea of creating a multiple personality. The story of the intelligence agencies creating multiple personalities to use as couriers and assassins may have begun with Estabrooks, and indeed in CIA documents you can see Estabrooks' theories worked out and discussed, but the genesis of the work begins in 1951 in the CIA Office of Security where an official named Morris Allen got the idea that CIA agents should be trained in hypnosis and in order to train them in hypnosis, he arranged with them to go up to New York and get training from a stage hypnotist. As soon as he and the agents got to New York, the stage hypnotist spent an hour and a half with them, regaling them with tales of hypnotic seduction - of how when the hypnotist went on the road, the he would sleep with a different woman each night - some of them he would give hypnotic hallucinations that he was their husband, others he would use other techniques - but this was a technique he had found very productive for his own sexual favours. The CIA was of course delighted to hear all of this and reported so in the documents. If he could use the technique to manipulate people that way, this was what they wanted to learn and so that's how they got trained.

Then from 2-3,000 pages of documentation going from 1951 to 1954 - Morse Allen and his group replicated all of the known hypnosis experiments involving people putting their hands in acid or jars of snakes, in shooting people dead, involving the French and Germans - there are all of those experiments American researchers, Estabrooks and others had conducted. But they (CIA) wanted to go further and explore the possibility of using hypnosis to create a programmed courier and a programmed assassin. The multiple personality itself may have come from Jekyll and Hyde which was very popular at the time. Another illustration of that idea in which two entirely different people can be within the same body - one being the embodiment of good, the other the embodiment of evil. It was good fiction, but it also was part of the genesis from Morton Prince's work. {slide: an Italian depiction of multiple personality - you can see the two faces pointing in other directions}

By the 1950's, the popular press was reporting in "The Three Faces of Eve", the existence of multiple personality - the three faces of course were more than three faces - and the final face was not the final face. Eve was Chris Sizemore finally telling the story with her real name and then telling it again in "A Mind of Her Own". Well, her mind may be her own, but her life isn't. She is now suing the film company which claims that the movie, "The Three Faces of Eve", means they own the story of her life. She claims they only own up to the time she had three faces, and that the other faces still belong to her. So she is still not in control of her identity and the fight goes on. [slide: here she is in person}

Sybil was then the next known or highly reported case of multiple personality disorder. Herb Spiegel tells me that Sybil was not a multiple, and that when he treated her in Cornelia Wilbur's absence, that Sybil never had any need to express any other personalities with Herb. Herb admits she was brilliant, and also extremely mentally ill, but that she was not a multiple, and he refused to participate in the writing or publishing of the book if that was the spin they were going to take on her case. On the other hand Herb believes that multiples exist, but that the condition is extremely rare and so people have argued that she was smart enough to know he wouldn't believe it, and therefore smart enough to know to conceal the personalities so the debate goes on.

The use of hypnosis to create multiple personalities and in general for intelligence purposes appears in a number of confidential secret documents just a few of which I will throw up on the screen. Some stories have leaked out about how the CIA hid it, and they didn't tell anybody about it. It's very simple. The CIA explodes the old theory of hypnotic moral curb. They came to the conclusion that people can be induced to do things that would violate their moral codes, and the folklore that you can't get people to do things against their will was simply untrue, and they carried those experiments further in to study ways to create unwitting killers. CIA documents tell of a 1954 project to create involuntary assassins. This is the end product of Morse Allen's work. By 1954 he had exploded the moral code theory; he had replicated all of the experiments of hypnotic coercision; and had conducted other experiments on his own, but all of these were in fact laboratory type experiments. He wanted to do more and see whether operational use could be put to these principles. His group prepared a film called, "THE BLACK ART". In the film, an "Oriental Character" is having a drink with an American agent. A drug is surreptitiously placed in the drink that causes the Oriental man to fall asleep. While dozing, he is hypnotized and programmed. The CIA had already experimented on hypnotizing people in sleep conditions and so forth. The next scene shows the Oriental man opening a safe that contains secret files. He removes the files and brings them to an American agent who reinforces the hypnotic suggestion. At this point, there is a voiceover by a narrator who asks, "Could what you have seen been accomplished without the individual's knowledge? Yes. Against the individual's will? Yes. With complete amnesia of performing the act? Yes. How? Through the powers of suggestion and hypnosis."

Again by 1954, Morse Allen was pushing hard to have operational tests of the thesis that you could construct a multiple personality and have that personality commit crimes, come back, and have no knowledge in the host that that act had been committed. In other words, The Manchurian Candidate scenario had been worked out by the CIA five years before the novel was published.

But would it work? In order to know whether it worked, you had to conduct what Morse Allen called "terminal experiments". These were experiments that could result in the death of the subject. The CIA gave clearance for those experiments to be done and in reference to one researcher who was asked if he would participate in them, he said, "if you set up terminal experiments, I will do them for free." By 1954, the literature demonstrates that Morse Allen's concerns had reached the higher levels of the CIA and that they were willing to engage in a field test for the Manchurian Candidate type scenario. By January, 1954, an ARTICHOKE memo says, "Could an individual of a certain descent be made to perform an act of attempted assassination involuntarily under the influence of ARTICHOKE?" Then later in the memo it says, as a trigger mechanism for an even bigger project, the CIA proposed that, "an individual of a certain descent, approximately 35 years old, well educated, proficient in English, and well established socially and politically in a foreign government be induced under ARTICHOKE to perform an act involuntarily of attempted assassination against a prominent foreign politician or if necessary, against an American official."

It was clear then, by summer of 1954, that the ARTICHOKE team said we can create an artificial personality, program that personality to conduct an assassinatiion, that assassination would occur. If in fact the individual was captured, he would never reveal the knowledge that he had engaged in the assassination, the host would know nothing about the alter, the amnesia would be impenetrable, and even under torture the host would not reveal the secrets. CIA research in many universities around the country explored topics such as programming people by way of telephone, whether somebody could answer a telephone, a secret word would be given, they would slip automatically into a trance, nobody around them would know they were in trance, they wouldn't know they were in trance, so forth. Experiments on pain, experiments on creating unconscious recorders, experiments were done on whether people would commit suicide under hypnotic instructions, and so on. Albert Mole had written one hundred years ago that it would be possible to give people hypnotic instructions to have them commit suicide. These were the subjects of CIA experiments. What ultimately happened, we don't know because the government files closed up at the point of reporting on the assassination attempts. But a year later, in May, 1955, a top secret report called "Hypnotism and Covert Operations begins with the following paragraph:

"Frankly I now mistrust much of was written by academic experts on hypnotism, partly because this is because many of them seem to have generalized from a very few cases, and partly because much of their cautious pessimism is contradicted by Agency experimenters. But more particularly because I have personally witnessed behavior responses which experts have said are impossible to obtain." By l954, the Manchurian Candidate scenario had already been thought of and was already under operational testing.

This is Richard Condon who wrote The Manchurian Candidate, as Walter Bowart discovered when he wrote him, he had no idea he was writing fact. He thought he was writing fiction. The only case that has come out of the literature that suggests that someone may have been an experimental subject is the control of Candy Jones. Candy was quite a beautiful woman, second only to Betty Grable. She was a pin-up girl during WWII, but her artificial personality, Arlene Grant, was programmed by the CIA according to the book to be a hypnotic courier and she was sent around the world, and occasiionally captured and tortured. Her last instruction was to have a two week vacation in Berlin and then jump off a cliff. It did not happen because her husband, John Neville, who was a very famous all night disc jockey in New York and an amateur hypnotist, shortly after they were married began to feel he had actually married two different women and could not account for the mood swings and the differences in personality. Using hypnosis with her, this story unravelled. Candy was sent to Herb Speigel for evaluation. Herb did a work-up on her using the hypnotic induction profile and other tests, and found she was very very high in the positive. And while he couldn't conclude that what she was saying was true, he could conclude that it would be true with her if it were true. In other words, she was the kind of person that this manipulation would have worked with. The Candy Jones story, which we cannot validate and we cannot invalidate ... I have seen a CIA file marked "Grant", but I have not been able to get the contents. It may be true, it may not be true. But the story about hypnotically programming couriers and assassins clearly is true. That book was published before the CIA documents were made available.

All of this of course violates the Nuremburg Standards but those Standards have had no application in covert activities. We found a document from the Attorney General of the United States to the Director of Central Intelligence which said '... if any of your agents are caught during their work, they will not be prosecuted for crimes' and therefore there is essentially the 007 license to kill that CIA agents will not be prosecuted for their crimes, therefore Nuremburg Standards do not apply.

It wasn't until the Nelson Rockefeller Report to the President in June, 1975 that we had any inkling about this material and then basically just a paragraph or maybe even a sentence mentioning mind and behavior control sent researchers looking for the files. In his testimony before Congress Stansfield Turner corroborated the existence of the mind control programs.

Some people wrote about them at the time. Peter Watson's book (from England) "The Military Uses and Abuses of Psychology" touch on but do not give in any detail the experiments done by the CIA and Army, but do talk in general about the use of psychology for military purposes. The classic works are of course, Walter Bowart's book, "Operation Mind Control" which is hard to find, and a collector's item, an extremely important book. John Marks' book, "The Search for the Manchurian Candidate", and my book, "The Mind Manipulators" -- these were the only three books to appear on the subject of mind and behavior control by the CIA and the Army experimental programs.

I want to move the story forward some more, from the CIA experiments in the 1950's into the 1960's and beyond. The 1960's brought us a new variation in operational utilization of the techniques of brainwashing and sensory deprivation and so forth that had been explored in the 1940's and especially in the 1950's, and this is the religious cult issue. This is Steve Hassam's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control" - there is a revised edition available for sale, probably the best of the deprogramming books on mind control. But it was in the 1960's that the idea of using these techniques on essentially freestanding populations was experimented with and the cults provide the laboratory setting for social influence processes where the people are not taken into complete physical custody. The cults themselves represent, I think, the step from the laboratory experiments into real world operational use and then beyond them, there are books like "Mindbending on Cult Deprogramming". Then we move into the books on satanism and programming. This one I think is available for sale ... "Satan's Children", linking the multiple personalities with satanism. Can we prove this? Where do we stand with our knowledge of satanism?

Speaking as a lawyer, it's going to be very rough going to prove a widespread, intergenerational network of satanic cults in court. Part of the reason for that is the report issued, "In Pursuit of Satan", by Ken Lanning FBI, who has concluded that though instances of satanic abuse do exist, there is no evidence to suport intergenerational, widespread, multinational networks of satanic abuse. Also, within the next two months, the most major study in the country on this issue will reach the same conclusions as Ken Lanning. And that report is due in about two months. But the tentative conclusion which will be the final conclusion, will be that Lanning's perception is correct. That the evidence does not exist for intergenerational satanic cults. Now, the methodology can be challenged, in any event the question of whether therapists who work with people who claim to be abused in satanic cults should be sued, is a separate issue from what can be proven.

Is it reasonable for you to believe that widespread satanic abuse occurs? The answer to that I think, is yes. Despite the Lanning Report and despite the conclusion that will come out later on, it is your job to believe your patients, at least within the therapy setting, and if they say it happened, then you work effectively with them by believing that it happened. It's when there is a real world corollary that the trouble begins. I am using my lawyer hat now. Do not tell your patients to go out and sue their parents or sue other people. Do not tell them to give newspaper accounts and so on, and to protect yourself in your clinical notes, say that this is the story your patient told, you have no way of knowing whether it is true or not, in any event, that's not your function. Your function is to make the person whole with whatever material they present to you. As long as you do not advise that they do not go out and sue other people, you can advise them to seek legal help if they say, "should I sue?" You say, "that's not my job, I am not a lawyer ... you should go to a lawyer and see what the lawyer thinks ... I will support you in this session whatever you decide to do ... but what you decide to do in the outside world is a decision that must be made by you and other professionals, not by me." As long as you do that, there should be no legal liability. If your patient sues you for believing all the crap that you are being told, in your notes somewhere should be "it's not my job to evaluate the historical validity of this information, but I will work with it as if it is true, because for my client at this point in time it is true." That should protect you.

There are isolated instances, there is also a large accumulation of information from local police departments who are not as influencable as the FBI - the FBI did deny the existence of the Mafia - when I went to an FBI friend of mine who oversees the Behavioral Science program there - I said why does the FBI deny the existence of widespread satanism - he looked at me and said they also denied the existence of the Mafia. Their conclusions can be rebutted in court by a lot of data from local police that have found ritualistic killings. The book "Mortal Remains" is an illustration of a case in Massachusetts where the borns were found where a satanic cult was practicing ritual murder. There are instances in which it can be proven. The existence of satanism is provable for over many centuries and the existence of cults and mind control programming is provable beyond question. For therapists to believe that there are some cults that are satanic is true, to believe that those satanic cults may be more widespread than we think or thought beforehand is reasonable, to believe that they engage in a bunch of horrendous practices - look what the Nazi experimenters did and look what Ewen Cameron did and how can you say there is a limit on human depravity? It is not unreasonable to believe that these kinds of things can occur, and in any event, when you work with trauma, you work more effectively by believing the story that it has come from.

Let's go further. In breaking bodies and minds, the role of psychiatric abuse and mental health professionals in creating torture victims and mind control victims is discussed - the complicity between torturers and professionals who help them to torture has been documented - this is the Irving Janus report from 1949 that validated the use of hypnosis as part of conditioning techniques being used by the Soviets; Rand report in 1958 again reaches the same conclusions; the involvement of hypnosis and other forms of programming - the book "Why Men Confess" is written by a former Assistant Attorney General of the United States, traces modern mind control back to the Malleus Maleficorum through the Moscow Show Trials and other places. It's a good legitimate source for understanding the modern "False Memory" stuff which I will get to right now.

There has been only one completely litigated case involving false memory. Can you implant false memories? Of course. We knew that 100 years ago. We have come a long way since then as you can see in this talk. This is Eileen Franklin and her daughter - this case is the only criminal case that has gone to trial in which repressed memory played a major role. She claimed that her father killed her friend, Susan Nasen. The story that Eileen Franklin tells us, that she was looking into her daughter's eyes one day and suddenly the image of watching her father kill her friend Susan (when Susan was 8 years old twenty years earlier) came into her mind, and then the memories started to flood back about that experience. {This is her father when he was arrested. Take a good look at him. Here is at trial on the right.} You learn a lesson about lawyering. That's his lawyer on the left. You clean up the client. You don't bring him into court looking like that ... you bring him in looking like that - on the right. You can introduce pictures but it is not as powerful as the present appearance.

The Franklin case is a very troubling one, and we have to be very honest about that because we are first and foremost scientists, and unlike the False Memory, do not need to have a political agenda here. Eileen Franklin is a liar. She told four different stories about the genesis of her memory one of which was that she was hypnotized in therapy. If that story were true, she would have been disqualified as a witness in California courts. When she learned that, or we hypothesize that when she learned that, she went back to her brother and said I told you I had been hypnotized. Forget that. That's tampering with evidence. She told actually four different stories about how she recovered her memories, and that's grounds to disbelieve her because there is clear evidence of lying in the way she presented herself. On the other hand the fact that she is a liar does not mean that the story she told is false. The False Memory make that assumption but that's bad logic. They may be right that she's a liar and her story is false, but you cannot make that jump as a logical matter. On the other hand her father is ... my first real knowledge of the case came from a cab ride with Beth Loftus on my left and David Spiegel on my right in Chicago when Beth and I were both plenary speakers at the ISSMPD in Chicago a few years back. Both of them had just come from testifying in the case, both of them testified against Eileen Franklin and each of them in the cab in my presence concluded that if her story were true, and it might be true, it would have been true of this man. This man physically abused his son and sexually molested his daughters. He had a violent past. It is well documented. When he was arrested he had a large collection of child pornography. He had an active correspondence to have sexual relations with their seven and eight year old daughters. He had pictures of those activities involving him.

Her memories may be true, and they may not be true. He is the kind of person it would be true of. It was independent physical corroboration of his pedophilia, of his violence, and the fact that this is the kind of man who would have committed that sadistic molesting and murder. It is the up to the jury then to decide if that evidence is enough. But her repressed memory was not the only basis of the testimony. The defence argued that everything she remembered was available in a newspaper somewhere. She had no independent memory of anything apart from what was in a newspaper somewhere and that point was made to the jury. The jury convicted, and Franklin, the father, is now in jail for life. The California courts have rejected his appeal and his lawyers have filed a motion in federal district court. They have imported Richard Ofshe, a specialist in social influence to work over the mother who testified against her husband in the trial and she has now changed her mind. Of course, this is not an unusual phenomenon. Now that he is in jail and she can have recriminations she might have changed her mind anyway, but the introduction of a social influence specialist with a political agenda to spend a lot of time with her to reach the certain conclusion, seems to me if there is a new trial is a point that will be raised at that new trial.

What I found very interesting is I interviewed the prosecutor, his lawyer, and his appellate lawyer and in their brief on appeal, the appellate lawyers wrote that ... no responsible person would believe that the concept of robust repression was false ... in other words the Ofshe/ Singer hypothesis that you cannot forget traumatic events over a sustained period of time and that it is the "scientific quackery of the twentieth century" is, in the opinion of these lawyers, irresponsible thinking, and I agree. The evidence shows that the Ofshe/Singer hypothesis is wrong. The evidence comes from biological studies of memory and how the brain processes traumatic memories differently than ordinary memories and it also explains how Loftus' research on normal memory is irrelevant to the issue of traumatic memory, a point which she is now reluctantly starting to recognize.

Is Eileen Franklin on trial? Is Freud dead? If you knock out the notion of robust repression as the False Memory people have been trying to do, you have a very simplistic idea. If a person can be repeatedly traumatized as a child, have no adult recollection of that trauma, go into therapy and then have a recollection, then the therapist must have implanted it if robust repression is not real ... So the existence of robust repression as the underpinning of the scientific foundation for the False Memory argument is quite crucial, but that argument is now shown to be scientifically invalid which doesn't mean that the False Memory position is wrong. They are right about what therapists should be doing and shouldn't be doing - on the issues of social influence procedures - but they are wrong about the robust repression. That means that somebody can go to a therapist and have that memory refreshed and that memory can be true

And then memory can be true. Which makes it a harder case, the world is no longer black and white. You cannot use the iatrogenic cause argument in every case of robust repression. The Father Porter cases are an illustration of robust repression, memories that were recovered without hypnotic intervention and in the absence of a therapeutic encounter. You may know the Father Porter story. My time is short, so I can't go through it with you now. In any event he recovered the memories of having been molested. He was able to validate those memories as to himself and Father Porter is now in jail having confessed to having molested between 50 and 100 young boys and girls. In the search for the unravelling of the human mind, mind control is real. It has a rich history. I have only given you a fraction of the history. We haven't touched on the physiological or pharmacological aspects. We haven't talked about behavior modification and conditioning techniques, and so forth, we have just concentrated on the issues that are closer to the work that you will be doing. We haven't talked about social influence theories in general, but the existence of mind control its work in secret laboratories, its work in CIA and Army experiments, its spilling over into religious cult settings, and its use in freestanding populations are all validated and that ought to give mind control the kind of respectability it deserves, and give you the background to believe the kinds of stories that your patients are telling you as at least possible. Thank you.


You have been listening to a lecture by Dr. Alan Scheflin, "The History of Mind Control: What we can prove, and what we can't". CKLN 88.1 on this series on Mind Control. Next week we are going to be featuring an interview with Claudia Mullen, Valerie Wolf and Chris Ebner the day that they had given the mind control testimony to the President's Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments in March 1995. If you have missed any of the shows, stay tuned for this message and find out how you can remedy that. CKLN is rebroadcasting a ground-breaking radio series, Mind Control in Canada, currently airing on the Sunday morning show, The International Connection. Starting June 2nd on alternative radion, Monday nights from l0pm to llpm, the eight month radio series, Mind Control in Canada, will be aired. This series looks into the Canadian and U.S. government history of mind control experimentation, and particularly the experiments done to children in creating programmed multiple personalities by means of severe trauma and abuse. If allegations of the survivors are true, and what government documentation would point to, the leaders, intelligence agencies and militaries of North America have been using mind control for political, military and criminal purposes for decades. To hear interviews and lectures with survivors, researchers and therapists on this important topic, tune into CKLN 88.1 FM Monday evenings 10pm to 11pm for re-broadcasts or Sunday mornings, 9.30am to 10.30am for the breaking story on mind control.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln06.htm

CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 8


Lecture by Authors Walter Bowart,
Alan Scheflin, and Randy Noblitt


Back to CKLN Series Table of Contents


Wayne Morris:

We are in week #9 of a radio series about mind control in Canada and the U.S., and today we're going to be hearing a lecture by some of the original writers about this topic. We're going to hear from Walter Bowart who wrote Operation Mind Control back in 1978, Dr. Alan Scheflin who wrote The Mind Manipulators also in 1978 based on the files that were released in the 1977 Kennedy Hearings in the U.S. We're also going to hear from Randy Noblitt who has written about cult ritual abuse. This lecture was recorded at a conference on cult abuse, trauma and dissociation Dallas, Texas in 1995. You're listening to CKLN 88.1 fm.

PAMELA PERSKIN:

Before we get started here I had a couple of remarks that I just would like to make. Everybody is here for their own purposes. Either you are survivors or you know survivors or you treat survivors or all of the above, and we hope that you'll gain something from your interacting both with our presenters and with one another. We believe that there is a diversity of opinion as to what is going on, what's happening. We should all be concerned that whatever is happening, it's producing people who are being damaged, and it's our responsibility as citizens and as human beings to reach out and try to stop this. I'd like to present our first speaker, Dr. Randy Noblitt. He is a clinical psychologist in private practice. He has developed a lot of expertise, somewhat against his will, in the area of ritual and cult abuse. He's the author of a book to be published in August entitled Cult and Ritual Abuse: Its History, Antropology and Recent Discovery in Contemporary America. So, without further ado here's Dr. Noblitt.

(applause)

Randy Noblitt:

Actually, I'm not going to be a speaker right now, I'm just going to make a few comments and introduce the panel that we have today, which... I am in awe of the opportunity to stand up here with these gentlemen. I'm very happy that we've been able to attract such a profoundly skilled, well-known, courageous group of people to come here and talk. First of all, we have a gentleman that many of you, probably almost everyone here knows or has heard of. Some of you may have been fortunate enough to see or read his book, Operation Mind Control. I'd be interested in hearing more from Walter Bowart why I can't go to the store and buy a copy of it, and maybe he'll tell us all some more about that. But he has an organization called The Freedom Of Thought Foundation, and today, Walter Bowart, who is one of the eminent international experts on mind control, will speak to us a little bit on the subject of mind control. So, I introduce to you Walter Bowart.

(applause)

Walter Bowart:

Thank you, Randy. Thank you, Pam. I haven't seen Alan Scheflin in, what, twenty-five years, when we went over all of those C.I.A. documents in, what, 1977?

Alan Scheflin:

1976/1977.

Walter Bowart:

And I was looking at people registering and I said, I was thinking, "Is that Alan? {slight laugh} Is that Alan?," you know how you do when you're trying to meet somebody at the airport and you haven't seen them for years, but then immediately as soon as I saw him I recognized him again. I'm a journalist, and in 1978 I published a book, it was published in five languages, called Operation Mind Control, and I was paid full royalties for millions of copies, it was a best seller. I went on a national tour in the United States. I did ninety-eight radio and television interviews in thirty-three cities in thirty days. When I went through O'Hare Airport in Chicago, going out for two weeks, I saw racks and racks full of the book, and I came back two weeks later and there were none, but nobody seems to have that book. The book is now fetching $250 in used bookstores if you can find it, if it's in mint condition. If it's in tattered and torn dog-eared condition, that little $3 paperback is worth $20 today. I have since updated it and I have put out a thing that's actually two volumes, twice the size, and revised all of my errors, because I didn't know what multiple personality was in those days, really. I didn't diagnose anything, I just reported what had happened. And today doctors and psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists are using the book and saying, "That's a multiple personality," Candy Jones and all the others that I mentioned. Since then... By that time, in 1978 before the book came out, I'd interviewed three hundred survivors, and now I've interviewed thousands and I've lost count. I've seen several patterns emerge, and one of them is the Satanic or cult ritual abuse pattern, and the other one's the alien abduction experience, and I'm talking later in the week on that subject and I have some very interesting charts and graphs that were developed by a psychologist who wishes to be, go anonymous, remain anonymous, and she and I have developed, added the mind control to the comparison of descriptions and reports from people that report alien abduction experiences, ritual abuse, and the government mind control side of things. And it's very interesting for the similarity, there are so many similarities it looks like one and the same thing, but it's worth discussing the differences and that's what I'll, what will be coming up. I founded the Freedom Of Thought Foundation because I'm trying to network people who have known for now almost thirty years and who are duplicating their efforts, a lot of them, everybody's got a little group and everybody's goin' in their own direction and there hasn't been much communication nationally and internationally. For example, in Germany today the prevalent belief system in the wards, in the psychiatric wards in hospitals, is that there's no such thing as M.P.D., and probably that's the way they'd like to keep it. Probably for years here that was what gave the intelligence community the advantage, because these people, I think, were diagnosed primarily probably as schizophrenic or something in those days, or some kind of erratic diagnosis, which is happening today. You change the manual, the diagnostic manual, and you get different diagnoses, and if you change the manual enough you're gonna have ten or twelve different diagnoses for the same thing. I'm sure you've seen that. So, I formed the Freedom Of Thought Foundation for the purpose of networking, for the purpose of communicating this information, we publish a monthly newsletter, but to me, at least in my heart, the main ...the thing I kept running up against and I know maybe Alan did, too, and maybe all of you have, is the National Security Act Of 1947. It says in the interests of national security all of your civil rights can be suspended. Criminals can be let loose because they work for the Department Of Defense, and a lot of these people that have perpetrated the crimes that we've seen and the abuse, the sadistic abuse that we're describing here at this conference and the thing that we call mind control, have done that under the charter of The National Security Act Of 1947. The act covers probably more criminal behaviour than it does secrets at this time, there's no more cold war, so I think that the time has come for us to call for the abolition or the repeal of The National Security Act, and for us as citizens to take back our Bill Of Rights and our Constitution, (applause) thank you ... and also to hold a cold war crimes trial and prosecute the tyrants that have done this. (applause) Thank you. I feel the same way you do. March 15th last, Valerie Wolf testified before The President's Commission On Radiation, and through I think Randy and Mark I was fortunate enough to talk to her before, almost during and after the testimony. She took two survivors with her, one with amazing abilities that you very often find with re-integrated multiple personalities or multiple personalities that aren't re-integrated for that matter, an incredible eidetic memory, and she had dates and codes and times and names of the doctors, and they named six doctors, among them Martin T. Orne of The University Of Pennsylvania, somebody I've been trying to interview for thirty {slight laugh} years, and he's always run out. I almost got him on the golf course one time, but he's always run from me. Also, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, the C.I.A. doctor, and Col. L. Wilson Green, U.S. Army Defense Intelligence, Chemical Warfare Division, Defense Intelligence Agency. These men and three others who, I didn't recognize their names, were among the doctors and professionals that were named in this. I said... I told a local doctor, a psychiatrist here one time talking on the phone, I said, " You know, you all, you psychiatrists created this mess, and it's gonna be up to you to clean it up," and he agreed with me, and then I said, well, then I'd give him a year or two and hold him to it, and if he doesn't get busy and do something about it I'm gonna add his name to the list, 'cause if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. You all know about the experimentation that was done on everyone. We are a nation of Guinea pigs since 1940, and the earliest mind control situation that I've run across in the modern context was the situation of a naval officer who apparently was working either behind enemy lines or... He was on a, one of the islands that were in Japanese territory, and so he got taken by the Japanese, captured by the Japanese, and he was tortured, but before that it seems as though he did some torturing himself. He knew a lot about the atrocities of war, so he had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and the Naval Intelligence people used their techniques that were being developed in MKUltra in those days to suppress his memories. He did not remember, and he died in the early '90's, or late '80's. He didn't remember a thing. He had a wife and children, he'd raised them, almost fifty years went by, everything was hunky-dory, he was blissfully oblivious, total amnesia, but then he started having cardiovascular accidents or strokes, and back came all these memories, and he died in terror, screaming the nightmares that he should have screamed back fifty years before. Now, that's a gruesome story, I hate to see a human being suffer, but there's hope in that story, because it means that memories cannot be suppressed, that all of the memories are going to come back, that there's some kind of an emulsion, like a film emulsion on the human soul that remembers things, and be that was it is. Also, the False Memory, I call it the Spindrome Foundation, {group laughter}} and I hope you'll start using that term because I think it is a spindrome and that it is not a syndrome. Look up the word syndrome and you will find that what they're talkin' about is not a syndrome it is a spindrome, especially since it was Martin T. Orne who founded the organization and came up with the board of directors -- very important. This is a Central Intelligence Agency action. It is an action aimed at the psychological and psychiatric and mental health community, to discredit you, to keep you in fear and terror, and you're an easy group to terrorize, I want to tell you. You've got a license that the government has issued, most of you. The therapists and social workers and others are freer, I think, and I think there's where the cutting edge is going to be, where you're going to find it. My friend who wishes to remain anonymous, a brilliant psychologist, told me, reminded me to not feel insecure about talking to you experienced hands in the fields of mental healing, because, she said, "These people need your input because every advance that has ever occurred in psychology has come about from somebody outside of the community, from a non-professional." So, a thing that I'd like to talk about, and I know that Mark Phillips is very well aware of this and Randy knows all about classical conditioning, and Mark calls it one thing, Randy calls it another, and I call it Neuro-Linguistics Programming because I learned it from the President's therapist, Tony Anthony Robbins, {slight laugh} and it was used in military and C.I.A. training and it is absolutely the Rosetta Stone for unlocking the human unconscious or subconscious or whatever you want to call it, the part where you're not conscious, and ninety percent of us are not conscious most of the time, you know. And so, there is a system by which you can wake up and take charge, and you can, though it sounds like a cliche, a new-age cliche, you can create your own reality, you must create your own reality, and there's nobody gonna do it but you, and we all must do it together. If you as therapists are finding that you've got a lot, your phones are ringing all the time and you've got patients all over you and you've got no time, the meaning of communication is the response you get, and I think maybe instead of teaching these people how to fish, you are feeding them fish, and now you've gotta start teaching them how to fish for themselves, and Neuro-Linguistics Programming is a very rapid and immediate, effective technique that you can adapt... It isn't... I don't... Anthony Robbins doesn't call it Neuro-Linguistics Programming. A guy named Richard Bandler who had associations with the C.I.A., worked with a guy named John Grinder who was more a family counsellor, most of you know this, but Bandler bragged to some of his students one time, "I'll bet I could commit murder and use this to get myself off." Several years later he was involved in a murder trial and he was, he was declared innocent, by a jury of his peers I'm told. And it was very interesting, and it's in the book Operation Mind Control, but the question comes up that since he boasted about it in the beginning, did he get away with exactly what he did? And every attorney needs to know Neuro-Linguistics Programming and probably a lot of them do. Robbins uses that guy with the cowboy hat from Wyoming, what's his name, Jerry Spence, as an example and modelled Jerry Spence. Modelling is... I'm sure all of you know about modelling and I'm sure some of you know N.L.P., too, as well, and call it what you will, it's Ericksonian technique, and I first learned some of it from my encounters with Milton Erickson when I was writing Operation Mind Control. Dr. Erickson was found in the files and he had, you know, the way it appeared he had used hypnosis to get a Japanese colonel to confess all of the secrets of state. He said no, he didn't do that, Margaret Meade told him that the Code Of Yushido said that if you touched these guys on the top of the head they had to commit suicide, "So I talked to this guy, there was a Marine with a rifle on him, he couldn't get anywhere, he was locked in a room, he could see the rifleman aiming at him through the windows, if he had done anything he would've been a dead man, and I said to the guy, "Okay, you're dead now, tell me the secrets", and the guy spilled the beans. So, that was what I learned from Erickson, that the context, the manipulation of the context is what we're talking about with all of these things. What we see as ritual abuse, mind control, or the alien abduction things, these are state-dependent things. These are dependent upon a state that's evoked and then anchored, and by collapsing the anchors you can loosen the state, jar it loose, and then deprogram people. We can go through the entire history. In '43 there was LSD. discovered by Hoffmann, in '47 the army conducted all kinds of hypnosis experiments, in '50 Richard Helms accompanied--he's the D.C.I. of C.I.A.--he accompanied two doctors to the U.S. Embassy annex in Japan, where four Japanese were interrogated under these new fledgling MKUltra techniques. That same year, in 1950 the Director Of Research Addiction at the research centre in Lexington, Kentucky, kept seven men on LSD for seventy-seven straight days, and then addicts were paid off in heroin if they took part in the drug experiments. In '51, McGill University's Donald Hebb -- and so on and so on and so on -- and it hasn't stopped yet. In 19... What is it here? I have the date. Just a year or so ago, 19... It was '94, I think, yes, October, 1994, the U.S. became a State Party to The Convention Against Torture And Other Cruel, Inhuman Or Degrading Treatment Or Punishment. The Senate had ratified it four years before it was signed, and I think that the delay was because they wanted to finish up on some of you--finish up their tortures. Now it's illegal by international treaty, whether or not we can enforce that remains to be seen. In order to enforce that we have to abolish, repeal... Just like our mom and dad repealed the Volstead Act and said, "Now we can drink a beer legally," we have to repeal The National Security Act.

Randy Noblitt:

Alan Scheflin, also, is a great honour to be on a dais with, and to introduce. Many of you probably have heard about his work. He's the author of, again one of the very early books in mind control, The Mind Manipulators, which came out in 1978, he's also the author of a more recent book, Trance on Trial, and he'll be speaking about the legal climate right now that has, that influences all of us regarding the concerns about false memories, the other legal aspects that seem to be coming around to plague those of us who are working in this area. So, without any further ado, it is a great honour to introduce to you all Alan Scheflin.

(applause)

Alan Scheflin:

Thank you. It's a great privilege to be here. As with Walter, I'm nostalgic about times past, when there were three of us and only three of us. John Marks, Walter, and I were working on books. We had the good fortune to collaborate together, so we were able to learn each other's stories and research and share them, and it was a very open spirit but there just were three of us. And the idea of a conference like this was unthinkable, the idea that we would have to keep doing this, I think, was unthinkable. I don't know whether Walter shares my naivete, but I thought in 1978, when The New York Times was running headlines about the C.I.A. mind control programmes, when our books were appearing, when we were doing media work all over the world, that we would finally get the story out, the vaults would be cleansed, the victims would learn their identities, the story would become part of history, and the people who had been injured could seek recompense. Instead, what happened was the great void. As soon as the story hit the paper it was yesterday's news, and we waited and waited for the Congressional hearings and we waited for the lists of people who were victims to be notified, and none of that happened, and for a long period of time consisting of all of the'80's and now almost half of the '90's, we waited to see the government do justice to the people that it had done experiments on unfairly and unfortunately. But that didn't happen, and so now we're gathered again to ask the government to release the files, to give us the information, and our need is great now than it was in 1978, because in 1978 we only had a little inkling of the story. Now we know that it's bigger and stranger and more difficult to grasp than we ever thought, we know that there are more victims than we conceived of, and we know that there was more pain involved than we could ever have imagined. So, on the plus side there are no longer three of us, there are many more. We must network, we must share, we must learn to investigate and produce good, solid data, and for the first time we have an enemy, which we did not have in 1977 and '76 and '75 when we began this research, and so we have to address the issues of the enemy. I'll turn to that in a moment, but I wanted to make a couple of points first. One is that the climate in those days was so much different than today. I remember working on the George White story... George White was a renegade C.I.A.and Bureau Of Narcotics agent who did some mind control experiments almost on a free-lance basis. He would try the drugs first and then give them to his friends. And so, I heard that the George White Papers were in a little college about twenty minutes away from where I teach, and I called up the college and asked if I could come by and look at the documents, and they said, "Sure," and I made an appointment for the following Tuesday, and about a day and a half later I get a call from the librarian, and God bless that librarian who said to me, "We've just learned that the Justice Department is issuing a subpoena to shut down everyone's access to this information. If you can get here right away we'll let you look through all of it." And so, before... In the presence of an armed guard who could have shot me if I had tried to take any of those documents or do anything with them, I was able to read through all of George White's diaries. These days we wouldn't even have access to the diaries. We wouldn't have access to a good deal of the information that we were able to stumble on quite naively then, because there was not an organized force against us. In this world, because of the false memory issue, it is important that you avoid legal liability, and given the nature of the material that we're talking about today, there are some hints I've got to give you and some tips that you should know to avoid liability, and here they are. In the first instance, it is almost impossible for therapists to be sued on third party liability theories, if the therapist does nothing other than work within the therapy session and not go outside it. Now, generally therapists can be sued by either patients or third parties. Third parties have no standing to sue therapists, and I argue ought not to have standing to sue therapists. If the false memory movement is successful in creating third party liability, and there is legislation now being proposed in half the states to do just that, it will put therapists in the position as follows. If you believe your patients the third parties will sue you, if you don't believe your patients the patients will sue you. That's a conflict of interest, and it's impermissible in any profession, yours as well as the legal profession, where we have a series of very well-worked-out rules to guard against conflict of interest. And so, for third party liability, do not leave the therapy session, and here's what I mean by do not leave the therapy session. You may be familiar with the Ramona case, it's been written about a great deal, involving the man in Napa who sued a therapist successfully, claiming that the therapist had implanted memories of child abuse in his daughter. He got a judgment for $475,000, and the false memory media machine said, "This is proof that these things happen and this is our first major court victory." Well, here's what happened in that case. The therapist's patient went in with an eating disorder complaint and came out with recollections of child abuse. The jury was given only one question in reference to the negligence of the therapist, and that question was, did they negligently implant memories? The jury felt that the therapists were negligent, but not that they had implanted memories, and so the jury did the only it could to reach a verdict it thought was just, because the judge had given improper instructions to them. The jury said, "Well, we'll find the therapists negligent, we'll just ignore the fact that the grounds that the verdict says are the implantation of memories." The therapists acted improperly in their therapy. They stressed the childhood sexual abuse issue as opposed to the eating disorder issue. They were not familiar with the literature. The initial therapist brought in a psychiatrist who used sodium amytal interviews improperly to anchor the memories, and then claimed that the sodium amytal works as a truth serum and therefore the memories must be true. All of that would still not have created liability, but the therapists went one step further. They asked the father to come to the hospital and see the daughter as part of the therapy. The father flew down to the hospital, and the daughter was coming out of the sodium amytal interview, accused her father, the therapist in a hallway filled with people said to the father, "You'd better confess. You'd better confess. You know you did it. It'll make everybody better if you confess." By having stepped out of the therapy session that way they triggered a bizarre case in California known as the Molian case. This case is so bizarre that the Supreme Court has tried to overrule it twice, but doesn't understand the case well enough to know how to overrule it. They said, "We would overrule it, but we don't know what we'd be overruling." The case, the Molian case, involves a simple fact pattern. Wife goes to a doctor, doctor says, "You have syphilis, go tell your husband and make sure he gets treatment," she goes back and tells him and sues him for divorce because if she had syphilis she must've gotten it from him, the family falls apart, it turns out the doctor's diagnosis was incorrect, and the husband now sues the doctor. The husband, of course, had never been a patient of the doctor. The Molian case held that the doctor, by telling the wife to tell her husband, created a direct duty owed to the husband, and thereby in a sense made the husband a patient, and it's on that, the basis of that case that third party liability rests in the Ramona case. Now, the Ramona case is touted as a big false memory victory. It cost the father one-and-a-half million dollars to bring the case to trial to get a verdict of four hundred and seventy-five dollars back. That may have been a moral victory, it certainly was not an economic victory, and on the moral victory side an interesting thing happened right after the verdict. The father went on television and said, "I have been vindicated. Everything I said about those therapists and implanting memories was true." The jury went on television and said, "No. It's not that way. We didn't believe the father. We knew he was a salesman." He worked for (inaud) {company's name} He had one of those unpleasant jobs somebody has to do, worked in a winery and made four hundred thousand dollars a year doing that. The father claimed that this was a victory for him. The jury said, "We didn't believe him. We don't know whether the therapists implanted memories or not. We didn't address that issue and we certainly don't believe him when he said he didn't do the acts.

We just found that the therapists had acted improperly and that the father had suffered as a result." If the therapists had not gone out of that therapy session there would have been no liability. So, to protect yourself from third party liability claims, make sure you have identified who the patient is. If you bring a third person into the therapy session, you can do so but use an informed consent form, and the informed consent form should say that, "You are coming in to assist in the therapy of the patient, name the patient, "You are not the patient, and by your appearance here the doctor is undertaking no duty and no responsibility to you." If the person will not come in under those circumstances, do not bring them in. That will protect you from third party liability. In terms of liability to patients, the problem is difficult, because a lot of the stories you're hearing are unbelievable, not unbelievable in the sense that they're physically impossible, but unbelievable in the sense that people do not want to know that these things happen, and they are willing to believe that these things do not happen. The false memory people, in what I call the false logic of false memory, commit an error of science when they lump together Multiple Personality Disorder, Satanic Cults, Mind Control Programming, Green Programming, etc., etc. It is important that all of those things be separated out. The DSM-IV as did some of its predecessors, entitles therapists to diagnose a condition of Multiple Personality Disorder, or now Dissociative Identity Disorder. You have the right to do that. It is a recognized psychiatric phenomenon, and though the false memory people may not like it, it empowers therapists to diagnose people as having that condition. And so, if you do so, the fact that you have used that diagnosis is not sufficient to make you legally liable. Even if you are wrong in a particular case as to whether a person is a multiple, that in and of itself will not necessarily make you liable to a patient as long as you have done your work conscientiously and you really believe that that was an appropriate diagnosis. It is very helpful to network with people to get second opinions, in other words, to diffuse the responsibility among other professionals, to show that you have done everything possible to make sure that the judgment that you passed on that patient was as clinically accurate and correct as it could be. In that context, when we move to Satanic Ritual Abuse, we do not find anything in the DSM - IV, and we do not find anything on mind control programming either, and so these are tougher grounds, they are harder to defend, and they are much more difficult to face in courts of law. How do you handle them? It is a general rule of therapy that you will do better as a therapist for your patient if you believe the patient or give the appearance of believing the patient.

A good deal of therapy, as all of the studies are showing, has to do with the relationship and not the theories used by the therapist. It is the relationship of trust and confidence and authenticity that is paramount in the healing process. And so, if a patient comes in and says, "I'm an egg plant," you should believe that that person is an egg plant for the purpose of sitting in that room, and you can give advice to stay out of kitchens, to stay away from knives, you are well within your rights to take whatever presenting conditions come in and work with it at that level. You get more from accepting what people tell you than you do by arguing that they must be crazy or they must be wrong -- and I think this is one of the essential points that's missed by the false memory people because they don't do clinical work, and their scientific board, for the most part, doesn't do clinical work either -- that no matter how strange the presenting ideas, you will do better clinically by working with them as if they are real than to try to resist them and talk your patients out of them. Now, as to whether you believe what they are telling you or not, that's up to you, and that's not something that should be the basis of a law suit against you, but how you work with a patient is a fiduciary responsibility. It requires you to act in the patient's best interest, which means to give the patient that sense of sincere belief even if you don't have it. Now, the unfortunate thing is that there are many crazy stories that we have heard that we've been able to validate. I'm thinking of the Jim Thornwell case in particular, where one day some lawyers in Oakland called me and said, "We've got some crazy guy here talking about mind control and shoot-outs with the French police and truth serums and hypnosis and whatever. We don't have any idea what he's talking about. Why don't you come over and see if you can make any sense out of it?" So, I went over there, and I spent a few hours with him, and he told me this incredible story about being in Orleans, France, and working in a NATO facility, there were some secret documents that were missing, and suspicion focused on him. They asked if they could hypnotize him, he said, "Yes," could they use a polygraph, "Yes," could they use a truth serum, "Yes." None of that showed him to be guilty, but the officers still decided that he must have been the one to have taken those documents, and so they staged a shoot-out with the French police. They're driving along, and the French police car pulls up, squeals to a halt, the doors open, the officers come out, start firing at the car in which Jim Thornwell is riding, and that car squeals away to get out of the gunfire. Then... That did not phase Thornwell, they could not get him to confess, because he said, "I'm innocent." They then told his fellow barracks members that he was having sexual relations with their wives, and so when they released him back to the barracks he wound up getting in a lot of fist fights. So, they kindly agreed to put him under protective custody for his own good, took him to a mill, and gave him LSD. Of course, he didn't know what LSD was at the time, almost nobody knew what it was at the time, and he said that he was sitting down, and the next thing he knew he was off in a corner baying like an animal, his head exploding into a thousand galaxies, and people saying to him, "Did you take the documents? Did you take the documents?" The experience was so destructive to him that he never did get to put his life together, and even after Congress through a special bill which is almost impossible to get, awarded him about a half a million dollars, he never got to enjoy that because he was found dead under mysterious circumstances shortly thereafter.

It turned out that everything that Jim Thornwell told me, and I have it all on tape, was accurate. As bizarre as the story may sound, we wrote to the Army, we got three thousand pages of documents, and one of them said, "We're not gonna court martial this man 'cause his memory is too good and we don't want this on the public record." And everything that he had told us was validated, we turned the story over to Sixty Minutes, they did it, and then CBS did a film based on his life. So, no matter how strange the story you hear, the patient is at least entitled to the presumption of some truth in it, and you must work with that some truth.

The false memory argument that I accept is that therapists have been unfamiliar with a literature on suggestion and social influence, and in fact are implanting the memories rather than recovering them. I've had enough experience testifying in courts to know that the false memory people have correctly identified a problem, a problem that could have been solved by now had they not been vicious in the way in which they sought their own solutions. But the false memory argument that therapists are implanting memories leads to a development that you need to know about, because I think it is the next step in therapy, and it's not inconsistent with what you've heard from the prior two speakers. There has never been a reason in your training why you should have to read police interrogation manuals, the brainwashing literature, the literature on suggestion, the literature on persuasion and social influence, but that time has now come. You are in essence being accused by the false memory people of not being familiar with the basic currency in which your profession traffics, and that is manipulating people. Interestingly enough, I accept the argument of the false memory people, but I reject their conclusion. The false memory people argue that therapy is in fact persuasion or manipulation, and that's what's wrong with it. I argue that's what's right with it, and that what we have to do is to recognize that yes, there is in the therapy setting, a relationship that is disproportionate in terms of power, in which one person is stronger and more knowledgeable, and another person is more dependent, and the job in that relationship is for the person who is more powerful to change by consent the person who is more dependent. The patient comes to you, and doesn't say, "I like the way I am. Let's just sit around and talk." The patient comes and says, "Change me," and the false memory people now want to sue you for doing it. I think they've missed the point. I think yes it is true that you have not been aware of the suggestion literature, and the social influence literature and the police interrogation literature, and that you will have to know that literature now because there's a new standard of care for practicing therapy emerging, and that the ultimate conclusion of what the false memory people are saying is to up the ante on the kind of training therapists will have to have, but that's simply gonna put on the table the one question that therapy has been avoiding all of this century, and that is the ethics of manipulating people, and with the recognition that you are in a social influence relationship when you are with a patient, then your job is to do it well and to use the techniques that are available to you not to hurt the patient and not to mind-control the patient, but to allow the patient to change usually outside of the conscious awareness of the patient, in a way that that change can be therapeutic. And to do that you must know the social influence literature, and so, for some people on the false memory board, they point a finger at you and they say, "You see, you're a mini-cult. The relationship between a therapist and a patient is like the relationship between a cult leader and a follower." And then they say, "Well, actually, you know, you're like a police officer doing an interrogation," 'cause the same principles apply in both settings -- both social influence settings -- and so they see you as mini-cults and mini-police interrogation stations, and accuse you of using techniques of social influence.

I argue that they are right to point out that these are social influence settings, but they cannot point to any setting which is not social influence-based. Any time two people interact with one another the laws of social influence apply, and your job is not to get rid of the social influence aspect of doing therapy, but rather to do it better and make sure you do it in ways which are consistent with your fiduciary responsibility to the patient. And in the long run, when the false memory people go away, what will happen is that you will have learned the laws of suggestion, the laws of police interrogation, all the things that we'll be talking about during the next couple of days, and that eventually it will be part of the basic training in therapy schools for people to be familiar with this literature. And in that sense we... I think an odd thing has happened. In the 1970's when we were working on our books, mind control was this demon, and the government had played with it and we were trying to rest those files from the government control. Really what we're trying to do is to tame mind control and to find ways for it to work for everybody's betterment, and if we can accomplish that, then we'll be twice blessed. We would have solved the problem we started in the '70's and we would have eliminated the unfair condemnation of the false memory movement. Thank you.

(applause)

Randy Noblitt:

I want to thank the speakers. I also have... Those of you that know me know that I'm gonna have two cents to add, so... Some of you may be wondering though at this point, "Okay. Mind control. What does it have to do with cults?" Since that word is associated with the topic for this conference, I wonder how many people out there think that there are groups, cults, whatever, where they practice let's say harmful, deviant, black magic, Satanism, not witchcraft in the sense of Wicca but dark arts so to speak. I wonder how many people think that. Now, some of you might be wondering, "What is the connection between cults, witchcraft, Satanism," and so on, and the mind control that you're going to be hearing a great deal about from the finest experts on that subject here. And that's an important point, and I'm hoping that if we accomplish one thing in this conference it is that we get a clear sense about what is the connection, because there is a connection. First of all, when you think about what people are calling Satanic Cults, many of you are aware that the false memory syndrome folks are arguing that this is entirely a fantasy concept, you know, it has no basis in reality, that people stay up too late and watch late-night T.V. or they go see a therapist who's fanatical, and I had such a patient. Actually, I've seen about two hundred. This is a garment that her false memories conjured up in her attic. I'm not sure how her false memories did it, but here it is. I'm gonna be talking a little bit more about this robe because it has an interesting story associated with it. It was brought to me by a patient who found it in her residence. She dissociated and was able to explain what it meant and what it was about, but in her waking normal state she was shocked and horrified that she foUnd this in her residence. In fact there's a part of the garment that she didn't even know what is was, and we'll be talking more about that later. It was found in a box with roses, dried roses, very old, and a newspaper that's twenty years old, that apparently was just used for packing purposes. So, it's amazing what these false memories can produce out of nothing. But anyway, we need to start thinking about what is the common thread that goes through all this, and actually there is a common thread, and it goes back even further historically than Satanism or what people call Satanism. I say that and I qualify that, because I don't believe that everybody who puts on a black robe is a Satanist. I think there are times that fraternities do stunts like that, and... In fact, I think our previous President, Bush, wasn't he a member of a group called the Skull and Bones, and I think they put on things like this. Of course, {slight laugh} that doesn't seem to disprove {laughter from audience} you all, but I'm trying, I'm trying my best. Anyway, {laughter from audience} maybe I should have taken a different {laughter from audience} kind of logic there. But actually, this is an old story, and it's a story of trauma, it's a story of slavery, it's a story of the complete annihilation of other human beings when you can get away with it. It's a very, very sad story and it has a long history. We can hear about that story and read about it in old documents such as The Bible. The Bible talks about children passing through the fire. It talks about horrible things happening. And... Of course many people may have just thought, "Well, that's kind of an interesting story," you know, "What does it mean?" What does it mean that Aztecs and other Meso-Americans would flay people on an altar and consume their heart? What does that... What is that all about? Well, my argument is, there's a thread that goes all through this, and if we want to go back in time we can go all the way back to the worship of nature, Shamanism, and so on. Trauma has always been viewed throughout history as a way of creating altered states of consciousness. Trauma...There are a variety of ways to create altered states of consciousness. Obviously you can meditate, you can do hypnosis, you can listen to drums pounding and they'll kind of carry you off and you'll drift a little bit, but nothing really exciting happens. Nothing very impressive happens. It's my belief that many, many years ago people learned that if you traumatize a person in a certain way you can create the god, the god that you worship, and so for that reason many early religions, many very old religions included trauma in their worship. In fact there's a book out, some of you may have seen it, it's called God Is a Trauma, and it's particularly about some of the gnostic, traumatic practices that went back into ancient times. We can carry this back even further than say the ancient times, the ancient Medieval times, back to, again, Shamanism. Now, it's hard to really understand Shamanism in detail now, the ancient version, because again, many of these practices are pre-literate. We have no way to know exactly what people did. We just see these examples, for example, in the Mayan temples, and we know that these buildings were probably used for these purposes, but it's a little easier to understand if we look into the Shamanistic practices of modern times. For example, I wonder how many people here are familiar with the Sun-Gazing dance or the Sun Dance as it's called. Some of you are. Okay. Well, this is still practiced in North America. Some of you may have seen the movie that came out some, I guess, twenty years ago, A Man Called Horse, and in the movie... I thought it was totally fictional, because I didn't think you could ever get anybody who would agree to be lifted up but with hooks stuck in their pectoral muscles. I didn't figure a big line would establish with people waiting to do that, but... And I assumed it was totally fictional, but as it turns out I was doing some reading on Shamanism and I read a modern-day account and I saw photographs of them doing the Sun Dance now--the Sun-Gazing Dance--and again, the idea's very simple, and I'll be talking about this more when I get into more programming in particular. To me this is where programming begins, where people perhaps learned accidentally that the use of trauma and other kinds of ritual acts can produce dissociative states, can produce dissociated identities.

That is, you can produce the deity, and many villages may have wanted to have their deity there, and it may have been a great honour for some child to go through these horrible procedures so that the village could have their deity right there with them. Well, through time these practices passed through some changes, but not a whole lot. Many of you are probably aware of the Mystery Cults that existed around in the Mediterranean during the ancient and up until the Medieval times. Many of these involved traumatic rituals as well, and so now we have people making allegations that some of the modern-day remnants of these Mystery Cults, that is, the fraternal organizations of modern times, engage in this kind of behavior as well. There are also many other pre-industrial cults. There's an excellent book by Oki, an African, Juju High Priest, who writes about the traumatic ordeals that were used in his West African community on people, and he describes the dissociation that also occurs there, so these things are happening now. Now, some of you may wonder though, "Okay. This makes sense, it's logical," and somewhere in there Satanism is a part, too. We hear so much about Satanism. Certainly there must be some... I mean, where's there's smoke, you know, there's gotta be something to that. So, where's the connection with the U.S. government and other governments and C.I.A. and Military Intelligence? I mean, doesn't this really sound awfully far-fetched? Well, we can go back to the Hellfire Clubs of England and Ireland in the 1700's, and we see a very clear connection there between governments, powerful members of governments, and bizarre occult or Satanic, whatever you want to call it, dark kinds of activities. As you all... As many of you probably know, Ben Franklin was a visitor of the Hell Fire Club in London or outside of London, and additionally the organization that was established in the outskirts of London was actually created by Sir Francis Dashwood, who shortly thereafter became the Chancellor Of The Exchequer Of Great Britain. In other words, he would be the equivalent of the Secretary Of The Treasury. We're talking about top level government. He was a close personal friend to George III. I mean, very high-level government type individual. And this was an individual who was carrying on in his residence bizarre practices that included blasphemous religious acts, bizarre sexual acts, and so on. Well, this is where we see a rather obvious beginning connection between government and bizarre occult and other kinds of procedures like that. Allister Crowley's another individual where we see a very clear connection between occultism, possibly Satanism, and governments. Crowley, of course, was involved with the British Intelligence as many of you know, and from then we have this marriage made in hell so to speak.

In any case, there is a clear connection between the use of trauma in a ritualized manner and the development of dissociated individuals, the individuals that are coming forth that we're seeing nowadays clinically, and hopefully... I'm hoping that in this particular conference we'll be able to show that connection, how it is, how it works, and hopefully give an opportunity for... We have many survivors who will be here telling their stories. We also will have some mothers who are protective mothers, who are doing their best to try to protect children in extremely abusive environments, and they're finding out that the government who was supposed to protect them is doing just the opposite, and we'll have time to talk about that as well. This is one of the great tragedies, is that something horrible is going on, but the people that we all should be able to trust to help us don't seem to be doing their job. And that is why it is my belief that we must have a citizens' movement to correct this terrible wrong. Now, you may wonder what good can people do, just individual people? Those of you who may be familiar with the history of the Mafia may know that the... Oh! Maybe I should ask. Do any of you believe the Mafia exists? {laughter from audience} There's one person over there. Okay. Did you know that there was a group that came out that said the Mafia did not exist? And in fact, they persuaded the Governor of New York at that time to become a member. They affected the production of The Godfather so that they took the word Mafia out. And in fact, I have to admit that for a long time I didn't know if there was such a thing as the Mafia, and I didn't use that word out of respect to Italian-Americans. I still do respect Italian-Americans, but I know that the Mafia does exist, because in 1989 the FBI did finally get a tape, an audio tape, of a Mafia initiation ceremony. Anyway, the false... I mean, not the false memory syndrome, not them but this organization trying to protect Italians eventually did succeed in convincing many people that the Mafia did not exist. In fact, it does exist. Well, the interesting thing though, I'm going about this in a very circuitous way, many of you know that the Mafia did not first start in New York. That was not really where it first got started. I think that there's an excellent parallel here between the Mafia and these various agencies of the government and individuals practicing these deviant acts, because the bottom line is that they're engaging in criminal behaviour, organized crime, it's a kind of organized crime, and we know that our government is capable of engaging in organized crime.

We're learning that more and more all the time. But the Mafia, since it did begin in New Orleans, it was first operative in New Orleans, was very successful, and there were some cases that came up where people complained and there were efforts to prosecute the Mafiosi, but they were entirely unsuccessful. Aren't you all amazed, that the government was unable, the local government was unable to effectively prosecute the Mafiosi in the late 1800's in New Orleans? This comes as a shock to many of you I understand. But the Mafia were essentially driven out of New Orleans, not entirely obviously, I don't think you can ever there now, but how was it done? It was done by a citizens' movement, by a grassroots group of people who decided they were not going to have this in their community any more, so it is my belief that if we truly want to see this kind of horror stopped, it is something that we as citizens, we as human beings, will have to make that commitment to, and I'm hoping that this, that our organization in part and you've heard about other organizations here that are looking toward that same goal, that as we join together as a whole we will be successful in this endeavour.


Wayne Morris:

We've been listening to a lecture by Dr. Randy Noblitt, Walter Bowart, and Dr. Alan Scheflin, and you've been listening to The International Connection here on CKLN, 88.1 FM. Stay tuned next week. We're going to feature the next two weeks a lecture about the history of mind control, what we know and what we don't, by Dr. Alan Scheflin. You're listening to 88.1.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln08.htm

CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 10


The CIA, Mind Control & Children

A Talk by John Rappoport


Back to CKLN Series Table of Contents


CKLN FM 88.1
Ryerson Polytechnic University
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
International Connection

Producer: Wayne Morris
   

Today we are going to hear from investigative journalist Jon Rappoport give a talk entitled The CIA, Mind Control, and Children about the CIA's use of children for creating mind control agents. Author of U.S. Government Mind Control Experiments on Children, he talks about the impact of the mind control testimony submitted to the Presidential hearings on radiation experiments. Jon also speaks about the mindset of those responsible for these horrors and the implications to society.

John Rappoport:

We are going to launch into this subject, but with a few comments before we start. Mind control is one of those things people don't like to talk about, including yours truly frankly. I got into it, and I saw the evidence, and it was ... you know, there it was.

Officially MKULTRA was a CIA mind control project that lasted about 10 years ... let's say from 1952 to 1962-63 ... Before it started, there was ARTICHOKE AND BLUEBIRD ... those were other CIA mind control projects. After it ended, supposedly in 1963, an office called ORD Office of Research and Development took it over. Their job we don't know about ... we are not sure of everything they did because that information is not available. It is in 130 boxes of material somewhere ... maybe in Langley, Virginia but they won't release it. Various people have said that they employed more sophisticated measures than MKULTRA to do mind control on people.

I think one of the reasons that this is such an important subject is because we are looking at people here who have a certain attitude about life itself, and these people are in the government and they are in important positions in the government ... and in order to understand what they are really about, we get a look at them that is unprecedented by looking at what they did with this kind of experimentation on humans. In other words, they hate life. That's pretty clear. They have their own version of life, which is like "death" and that's where their life is ... that's what they feed off of. I would say that most, if not all, secret societies are based on the same concept. Once you cut through all the paraphenalia and symbology of secret societies, you are basically dealing with people who have, for one reason or another, given up on life completely. They are now into the form of life that is involved with death ... that's their territory. And it's a pretty horrendous thing to say, but I think that would be borne out. My own feeling is that we are talking about a confluence of different influences here on individuals that go back a long way into the past ... into the history of families in which they grew up ... I am talking about long term history of what those families are ... and these people who are entirely functional, but entirely psychotic if you want to use that term. It doesn't really do it justice but it tells you something about them. I am talking about John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles ... I would say they are very good examples. Look at their faces ... look at what you see there ... you see almost nothing. There is a kind of mask-like quality about these people, an emptiness -- very competent people who go about their business, who seem to have no feeling or "juice" for life. And I would say these people are often born into families who go back centuries possibly in that kind of disconnected condition from life. While they are able to function very successfully in society and deal with power, because that is their ticket and their coinage, they find that control and destruction of life is the only thing really that gives them life.

Since I have read this information that I will be sharing with you tonight, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the people who were involved in the nuclear weapons scenario really wanted to destroy the world. It may seem obvious to say but they see that as "liberation" if you can wrap your mind around that ... as a release from, what they consider to be an oppressive situation that just simply can't be tolerated. They see destruction as liberation and so the only thing that would hold them back, I think, from destroying the world is the feeling that they may not have the playground left in which to enact their scenarios of destruction. There would only be one, and that would be the explosion that would take care of the planet.

I would say that this is what we are dealing with. I would put up as a model against that, on the other side, although this man is not a messiah by any means, but if you know any of the work by Wilhelm Reich, the psychiatrist who broke away from Freud, he developed an entire psychology around the concept of liberation of energy ... from within the person ... that was locked up. It was really the first time ... he was the main figure in the history of Western psychology, let's put it that way ... which was a recent effort. To simply say that we are talking about energy here, and that freedom and the release of free energy from a human being against blocked up channels gives you what is called "life" -- that's life. And he was, of course, destroyed by the government. He had a device that was an energy accumulator device. He was arrested because a federal agent posing as a buyer or distributor of that device offered to take off his hands and bring it through state lines and so he was served a su bpoena to appear before the federal government that involved illegal interstate commerce, and his comment was rather native, he said, "how can they possibly serve me ... that's politics ... I am talking about science." He didn't honour the subpoena, they put him in jail, and he died. He was talking about fantastical things like plumes of blue energy shooting out of the top of a person into the sky and this kind of liberation of energy would occur. He said that energy creates clouds, and storms, and weathers, the same energy that we have inside ourselves is identical and he called the unit of it an "orgone". He invented these wild machines that were able to, supposedly, manoeuvre this energy around. He is a fascinating person, and I always hold him up as a person who ultimately stands for the other side of things -- which is life.

The reason that you find some of these fascist lunatics involved with magic and occult sciences and heavy, heavy, heavy symbology and all of that ... is because within these secret societies, they are dealing in death as life.

If you could imagine life as a kind of hourglass and they fall through the top and through the skinny part and out the bottom and they see that as being a form of living, and they take their sensation and their thrills from some sort of upside down version of life. I wanted to paint that little sketch before I started, because we are going to get into some pretty strange territory here. I want to say that I think this is basically what is going on. It's important to know that these people occupy key positions in our government and still do and they are not accountable. It tells you something about what is called a democracy ...

I have brought some testimony together into this book called, US Government Mind Control Experiments on Children. It's a compilation basically of testimony that was given in Washington and before I read from it while I can still remember ... I want to make a few announcements, a little bit about myself and the people who are here tonight. This is Deep River Books. She Who Remembers is taping this talk ... the tape is available afterwards. I will probably forget to remind you and Jeannie will stand up and say something. Ralph Cole of Justice Vision is taping. He has also been taping meetings of Heal, an alternative AIDS group which is doing some excellent work about bringing the truth about AIDS to people and he has some of those tapes available too. This book is available upstairs at Deep River, and so is another book of mine, called AIDS Inc. which I wrote in 1988.

I am investigative reporter, for about the last fifteen years, and I basically have been investigating what I call medical fascism which I believe is the mechanism by which people are going to be dragged into Brave New World if that is the outcome that we unfortunately end up with. That issue is not decided, but because the medical world has such great authority with people, they believe so much in doctors and experts, they are going to try to make that move ... they are going to try to bring people to heel under the aegis of medicine ... they are going to try to say that they know science, and therefore you have to listen to what they say, and if they say take a drug, or you are suffering from a germ, there is no questioning that. If they say you are detained or quarantined, there is no questioning that ... I see that as being something that is coming around here.

This testimony was given before the President's Committee on Radiation on March 15, 1995. We had three people who went up there from New Orleans ... Valerie Wolf, a therapist and two of her clients, Claudia Mullen and Chris Denicola. God only knows how they got in and testified. I have heard the story from Valerie, and I still don't even believe it, but ... basically she told me the screener up there, the person who was screening applicants to speak about cruel and unusual radiation experiments on Americans ... she said, well I have clients and they are saying that some of these doctors who administered radiation, administered mind control to them so we want to talk. And they said okay. They testified, from what I can gather, for a very short period of time verbally. They submitted a lot of testimony to the Committee from other therapists and other patients, and they somehow got in ... nobody knows how ... but they got in and that opens a certain kind of door for us, because it puts it on th e record and it gives it a certain legitimacy and what these patients essentially said was, from the time they were 4 years old, 7 years old, they were tortured by the CIA and the military. You can call it something more sophisticated, but it really isn't. It involved electroshock, physical torture, lights, spinning tables, hallucinogenic drugs, sleep deprivation, isolation tanks, hypnosis, mind programming with commands, layers of trauma that induced buffer zones of amnesia between the traumas, and essentially thereby created multiple personalities. As one psychological theory has it, if you induce enough trauma, you get a split in the personality because the person can't face the pain, so they put that part out of it, and they come with a new personality. If you keep doing it, you invoke or create different personalities, and then if you are the CIA you try to program these sub-personalities to do different things like memorize information photographi cally and not remember it, do courier operations, assassinations, sex agents, blackmail operations, all of this.

Now I must say that I think some representations of this kind of operation are a little too neat and clean ... that is people assume it is like (clicks fingers ...) ... okay we will create 37 personalities now and program each one ... do these commands and call it up and da da da da ... I really doubt that it works that way. I think that in many cases, it is a total wash-out. In many cases, it is just psychosis time, madness. (In many cases people are killed because they just won't respond, and they will not stand for it no matter what is induced ...) There are two tracks here ... and these are the tracks. There is testimony by the people saying this was done to me ... and then you decide if you believe that or not. Then over here, there are attempts to verify through obtaining documents from the CIA and the military that such experiments did in fact go on to create a parallel track of research to give credence to what these people are saying over here because there are many good people w ho want to say this is all nut-case territory over here, and we don't want to know about it, and frankly, I don't blame them. So the researchers have said, the ones who are really into this, we want to try to document it as well on the other side and efforts have been made in that direction, and continue to be made in that direction.

Let me introduce into the record, and it would be nice if we were all sitting here in front of an Arlen "Single Bullet Theory" Spector and people like that ... something called Volume Seven, Recent Advances in Biological Psychiatry, the Proceedings of the19th Annual Convention and Scientific Program of the Society of Biological Psychiatry, Los Angeles, May 13, 1964. The Officers of this group include Ewen Cameron, M.D., Psychiatrist from Canada many will recognize as possibly the major monster on the planet as far as mind control ... much has been written about him ... I am not going to talk much about him tonight. In Part One in the Table of Contents, we have the following paper: "Automatic Nervous System Responses in Hospitalized Children Treated with LSD and UML" and one of the researchers is Loretta Bender. Loretta Bender cannot be nailed down as being a CIA employee. She was in fact, in 1961, a president of the Society of Biological Psychiatry, but she was part of a small group of researchers who were doing early LSD research ... most of whom were doing it for the CIA. She attended conferences where those people showed up ... like this, and she attended at least one conference by the Josiah Macey Foundation which was a conduit and front for CIA money. The paper is rather lengthy but I am just going to read you a few things from it. This is not part of the book.

"In the children's unit of Creedmore State Hospital with a resident population of 450 patients, ages 4 to 15, we have investigated the responses of some of these children to lysergic acid and related drugs in the psychiatric, psychological and biochemical areas. Two groups of boys receiving daily LSD, UML (which is a methylated derivative of LSD) or psilocybin ... at first the medication was given weekly but was eventually given daily for periods of up to several months. Dosages remain constant throughout, LSD 150 mcg. (which is a standard for an adult trip), psilocybin 20 mg. daily or UML 12 mg. daily, all given in two divided doses. The average duration of treatment was 2 to 3 months." Daily. Children, 7, 9 , 11 years old ...

The psychiatrist who sent me this told me that he has a statement at home which he is going to fax me which shows that in several cases at least with these children, this was carried on for several years daily. Of course, all of the testimony here about what happened to the children is they got nothing but better ... these were autistic, retarded (a loose term signifiying really nothing), but autistic or schizophrenic children ... that was the diagnosis. They all "responded, became more straightforward, and here" and whatever. You decide ...

That is a very significant piece of evidence here. That shows that as early as 1964, the CIA was in fact experimenting ... or a person with probable CIA connections ... was experimenting on young children with LSD and other similar drugs.

Now I have here a staff memorandum given to me by Harlan Girard, a very active researcher in his field, to Members of the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments from the Advisory Committee staff on June 27, 1994, and this is a summary of the CIA, its history and its activities. In other words, members of the Committee on Radiation staff submitted this to the Committee at large to kind of clue them in on what the CIA is prior to the 1995 Hearing of the President's Committee on Radiation, and they say, "In the 1950's and 60's the CIA engaged in an extensive program of human experimentation using drugs, psychological and other means, in search of techniques to control human behaviour for counter intelligence and covert action purposes." This is quite an admission. In other words, they are training agents, it says here, by using mind control on them. It doesn't say they are using mind control just to sort of get information from foreign agents. The possibility that the CIA itself engaged in human radiation experiments emanates from references in a 1963 CIA Inspector General's report on project MKULTRA which was a "program concerned with research and development of chemical, biological and radiological materials capable of deployment in clandestine operations to control human behaviour." Now in the rest of this report, they indicate that they cannot find any records of specific radiological experiments carried out by the CIA, and obviously they are looking. This doesn't look like a total whitewash.

But that doesn't mean that you believe them, it just means that those records have been destroyed or hidden away deep hidden away ... because everybody agrees that radiation is a bad thing ... and the CIA ... the last thing they want is for people to believe that they used radiation on people. But this does indicate that there was a reference about research and development of radiation by the CIA for purposes of deployment in clandestine operations to control human behaviour. How the hell do you use radiation in clandestine operations to control human behaviour? Well, I would suggest that you use it to traumatize people whom you are training as agents so that you can gain control of them and you therefore have them under your thumb, and they do what you want them to do. The testimony here tends to bear that out ... that radiation was used on people as a method of inducing trauma, not as a way of testing ... you know ... does radiation cause harm? Which is sort of the gist of the President 's Committee on Radiation ... they went half-way. They said "terrible things were done to unwitting Americans ... radiation was used by doctors on them in hospitals" but this goes further, we are now talking about a whole other leve, because those those experiments which were supposedly carried on as a misguided effort to see what toxicity levels were like, unfortunate occurrences, things got out of control at times, isolated individuals did commit crimes, da da da da .... you know. But they were attempting to do medical research ... and that's one of those hypnotic phrases, "medical research". I could probably put everybody to sleep just by saying "medical research, medical research ..." (laughter) And people would reach into their pockets and come out with money, man ... well hey, cancer and infantile paralysis and m.s. ... whatever you want ... I'll give you money ... medical research, medical research. Politicians know that's the key they turn all the time ... when they can't figure out what to say, they say we need more money for research ... and that means tax money and it means things you don't want to be subjected to most of the time ...

Valerie Wolf is something else ... this woman is down in New Orleans ... she is seeing clients other people won't see ... therefore they tell strange stories. These are clients who have been fired by other therapists ... they are very unruly, out of control, they do not recover, nothing works, they cut themselves, they go into hospitals, they try to commit suicide ... they are people that therapists generally flee from ... and she says "let's go ..." That's her scene ... so it stands to reason that she would hear stories that other therapists cannot hear ... and in her statement to the Committee on Radiation March 15, 1995, she says, " ... the research programs [that her clients were submitted to] included radiation, drugs, mind control and chemicals ... my clients have reported all of these being used on them, although technically they were considered to be part of the mind control experiments. Generally it appears that therapists across the country are finding clients who have been subjected to mind control techniques. The consistency of their stories about the purpose of the mind control and the techniques such as electroshock, use of hallucinogens, sensory deprivation, spinning, dislocation of limbs, and sexual abuse is remarkable. There is almost nothing published on this aspect of mind control used on children, and these clients come from all over the country having had no contact with each other. From the small sample of therapists to whom I talked, it appears that about 25% of the clients report memories of being used in radiation experiments. It is possible that more people were exposed to radiation, but that the memories have not yet emerged because our awareness of this experimentation is so new."

Let me say now, before we get into it further, that the one organization in the United States that has tried to debunk all of this is called the False Memory Syndrome Foundation. They are based in Philadelphia. They say that any recovered memories in therapy, that is any patient who goes into therapy and recovers a memory is a liar or unintentionally lying because their therapist induced it, suggested it, guided it, okay? Now, I talked to these people and at certain levels they are very well meaning of course ... that is always the way. I talked to their PR person and I asked when were you born, this organization? She said, "1992". I said well how extensive is it? And she said, "We have a chapter in every state." Now for anybody who has ever been an activist or worked in non-profit 501C3 ... are you kidding me man? You have a chapter in every state in 3 years? You're cooking, you are cooking ... and in foreign countries they have chapters too. But no foundation money and no government funding ... this is like, you know, they are like ... walking on water ... you know? (audience member: "It took McDonald's longer ...) There we go. That's the False Memory Syndrome Foundation ... (audience member: "individual contributions ...") It is true ... now that organization was founded by Pamela Freyd ... her daughter accused her husband of abuse as a child ... and in the resultant uproar they founded this organization ... Frontline on PBS did an entire episode on all of this ...

... and then received a letter, from I think it was the daughter's brother who said, that was quite a presentation you put on about the FMSF and my mother ... and I just wanted to tell you though that despite your sympathetic treatment of this organization, everything my sister said was absolutely true and they were abusing her from the time she was a little kid." That's interesting about the beginning of this organization.

Now on the board of this organization we have such luminaries as Louis Joly West ... Louis "I never worked for the CIA" Joly West. This guy has been documented to have done all kinds of stuff for the CIA and military on mind control stuff ... gave LSD to an elephant, and killed it. Wanted to start the Centre for the Study of Violence at UCLA in the l970's. We have letters, and this was going to be located in a used, abandoned missile base somewhere out north of LA, and part of the deal was they were going to do psychosurgery on violent offenders which is the selective melting of brain connections to keep people from being violent. And this was touted as being highly medical, very precise. This is right in the ballpark of what I am talking about here when they say "it's all medical ... we have miniaturized and we can take out certain neurons here and there, and everything's cool." Some people throw up their hands and say who am I to ... I don't know ... maybe they are right ...

Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist who investigates toxic drugs and violence projects against citizens using psychiatry as a front ... he lays it on psychiatrists. He discovered that the one case where they claimed a cure by psychosurgery was turned into a gibbering lunatic and that's why he was cured of violence. He wasn't able to even live unless somebody was taking care of him all the time and this particular patient was heralded as a cure by Frank Irvin and Bernie Sweet and these guys in the 70's who were the doctors doing psychosurgery. That was their model, showcase cure of violence.

So Louis West, who wanted to start this centre at UCLA, is on the board of FMSF and so is Martin Orne, a Harvard psychiatrist who has done contract work for the CIA in the past. And several other people who have those kinds of connections. They want to debunk this stuff right out of the box ... forget it. This is the kind of stuff they want to debunk. Claudia Mullen, client of Valerie Wolf, reports to the Presidential Commission: "Between the years of 1957 and 1984 I became a pawn in a government scheme whose ultimate goal was mind control and to create the perfect spy. All through the use of chemicals, radiation, electroshock, hypnosis, drugs, isolation in tubs of water, sleep deprivation, brainwashing, and verbal, physical, emotional and sexual abuse. I was exploited unwittingly for nearly three decades of my life, and the only explanation given to me was that 'the end justifies the means' and I was serving my country in their bold effort to fight communism. I can only summarize my circumstances by saying they took an already abused 7 year old child and compounded my suffering beyond belief. In 1958 I was to be tested, they told me, by some important doctors coming from a place called The Society [... that's the Human Ecology Society, a known CIA front]. I was told to cooperate, answer any of their questions, then since the tests might hurt, I would be given shots, xrays, and jolts of electricity. I was also instructed not to look in anyone's face too hard and to ignore names, as this was a very secret project ... but to be brave and all those things would help me forget. Naturally as most children do, I did the opposite, and remembered as much as I could. A Dr. John Gittinger [Rapaport: these people in the testimony named names, they did not screw around ...] tested me and Dr. Cameron gave me the shocks, and Dr. Green, the xrays. Then I was told by Sid Gottlieb I was right for the Big A ... meaning Artichoke."

"By the time I left to go home, just like every time from then on, I would recall nothing of my tests or the different doctors. I would only remember whatever explanations Dr. Robert Heath of Tulane Medical School gave me for the odd bruises, needle marks, burns on my head and fingers, and even the genital soreness. I had no reason to believe otherwise. Already they had begun to control my mind. The next year I was sent to a place in Maryland called Deep Creek Cabins to learn how to sexually please men. I was taught how to coerce them into talking about themselves. It was Richard Helms, Deputy Director of the CIA, Dr. Gottlieb, Capt. George White and Morse Allen who all planned on filming as many high government and agency officials, and heads of academic institutions and foundations as possible. So later, when the funding for radiation and mind control started to dwindle, then the project would continue at any cost [in other words, blackmail]. I was to become a regular little spy for them after that summer. Eventually trapping many unwitting men, including themselves, all with the use of a hidden camera. I was only 9 years old when this kind of sexual humiliation began. I overheard conversations about a part of the agency called ORD run by Dr. Green, Dr. Stephen Aldrich, Martin Orne and Morse Allen ...."

Dr. John Gittinger was Sid Gottlieb's protege ... Gittinger tested everybody. He was like a fanatical tester, developing profiles of humans, different types of humans, all kinds of questionnaire type tests. Sid Gottlieb was the head of MKULTRA projects for the CIA ... a very high ranking bureaucrat, probably never treated a patient in his life. These people (testifying) were saying that these people were doing it ... they were not supervising it alone, they were doing it. Dr. Green seems to be a name that is a cover name that many different people used. However there was a Dr. L. Wilson Green, Technical Director of US Army Chemical and Radiological Laboratories at the Army Chemical Centre ... so we could have both things happening there. Richard Helms became director of the CIA ... a real smooth operator. He was the person who destroyed many MKULTRA files before they could be revealed. Capt. George White made a statement to the effect of "nowhere else but in the CIA could a young, red-blood ed American rape, pillage and plunder without ... accountability" He set up a brothel in San Francisco in the 60's, paid off prostitutes to bring in johns to a room which he was filming, and these johns unwittingly drank LSD in their cocktails, and filming was supposedly to determine what the effects of LSD were on unwitting subjects. This is documented up and down. By the way, for those of you who want to get the background here, John Marks' Search for the Manchurian Candidate, Walter Bowart's Operation Mind Control now updated, are upstairs ... and there is a very difficult book to find called The Mind Manipulators by Alan Scheflin which goes into a wider arena and is a very valuable reference source. There are many other books, Journey into Madness ... but the Marks' book, Scheflin book, and the Bowart book all took off from the same revelation of the ten or so boxes of information that were finally released by the CIA in about 1977 ... they were actually financial records of MKULTRA. They didn't think they were very incriminating, but they finally began to look at them and saw they were very incriminating. A mistake ...

Then we had Morse Allen who was the head of Project Bluebird, another mind control project. High up people here she is talking about ... who planned on filming as many high up officials ... She says "I overheard conversations about a part of the agency called ORD run by Dr. Green, Dr. Stephen Aldrich" who became Director of ORD researched remote control of brains by electrodes, he went to the college I went to, Amherst College ... hope I run into him some time. Martin Orne, mentioned again ... we are not stinting here on names, these people just named them ... sitting here in a room in Washington, D.C. before the President's Committee on Radiation saying that Richard Helms was involved in torture and brainwashing of children. Now, Valerie Wolf makes this comment about Claudia Mullen: "After 9 months of therapy, she came to therapy one day with MKULTRA written with other words on a piece of paper ... the first time ... she had never mentioned any of this before. From that point on, she began to work on the mind control issues and began to improve. All of her memories have emerged spontaneously, without the use of memory enhancement techniques such as hypnosis or sodium amytal. I had told her nothing about government and CIA research projects. To the best of my knowledge, she has read nothing about mind control or CIA covert operations. Since she decided to listen carefully and remember as much as she could about conversations among the researchers, her memories are extraordinarily complete. I have sent written copies of memories to Dr. Alan Scheflin for validation [the author of The Mind Manipulators who is a professor of law at the University of Santa Clara]. He has confirmed that she has knowledge of events and people that are not published anywhere ... that some of her memories contain new information and that some are already known and published. Some of her memories have been confirmed by family members. She has also shown me old scrapbooks where she wrote notes to remember what was happening to her, and hid the notes under the pictures in the scrapbooks." Claudia Mullen states that she is still being monitored, that there is a doctor in New Orleans, who was her family doctor. She names him in her longer testimony ... and she said to me, "don't tell him you are going to do something before you do it, just do it."

Apparently as recently as a month or two ago, she feels that ... it's a strange situation ... apparently she is not positive that this doctor was monitoring her, but now she is. She went to his office ... she doesn't remember what happened to her ... there were marks on her when she left the office ... and she feels he is still monitoring her. So there is an element of danger involved in this, for these people. Some of these statements in here are anonymous. Some therapists made statements anonymously because there was public censure by their peers for getting into this stuff. I am told that a therapist named Corey Hammond spoke at a recent convention on methods of deprogramming this kind of mind control that he has developed ... Valerie Wolf says she is using these, and they are terrific, they work. He has been subject to a lot of censure by other psychologists, societies, whatever it is and that he doesn't want to talk to people any more, just for making a verbal presentation at this conference.

Chris Denicola, another client of Valerie Wolf. Tucson, Arizona. "I was taught how to pick locks, be secretive, use my photographic memory. Dr. Green taught me a technique to withhold information by repeating numbers to myself. He would show me information, then shock me [electroshock]. I would repeat the numbers in my head. I refused to disclose the information that he just gave me, and he found me to be very successful in that part of his mind control experiment. I was four years old. He moved on to wanting me to kill dolls that looked like real children. I stabbed a doll with a spear once, after being severely tortured. The next time I refused. Dr. Green used many torture techniques, but as a I got older, I resisted more and more. He often tied me down in a cage near his office. Between 1972 and 76, he and his assistants were sometimes careless and left the cage unlocked. At these times I snuck into his office and found files with reports and memos addressed to CIA and military personnel. Included in these files were program projects, sub-projects, subject and experiment names, with some code numbers for radiation and mind control experiments. I was caught twice and Dr. Green tortured me ruthlessly with electric shock, drugs, spinning me on a table, putting shots in my stomach and my back, dislocating my joints and hypnotic techniques to make me feel crazy and suicidal. Because of my rebellion and growing lack of cooperation, they gave up on me as a spy assassin. Consequently the last two years, 1974-76, Dr. Green had access to me. He used various mind control techniques to reverse the spy-assassin messages through self destruct and death messages if I ever remembered anything. His purpose? He wanted me dead and I have struggled to stay alive all of my adult life. I believe that it is truly by the grace of God that I am still alive."

That's just a piece of her testimony. A statement from Alan Scheflin, lawyer, professor of law, Santa Clara: "Claudia's therapist [Valerie Wolf] has been kind enough to send me, with her client's informed consent, some of the pertinent records reflecting Claudia's memories of her experiences as an unwitting subject in these experiments. I have been able to confirm that some of the information Claudia has provided is absolutely true and could not have been derived from any published source." I spoke with Scheflin and he said to me, I thought he was playing it a little close to the vest with this, I understand he is writing a book on this, so I don't know ... he said, "there is one piece of information that I was able to confirm, and I don't know how she could possibly have known this. It involves the connection between two government researchers that is not published anywhere" and he said "I just happened to know that they are connected and she mentioned that they knew each other."

Let me just comment on some of this here. All throughout this testimony you have other clients and patients saying similar things. Dr. Green, Dr. Green, Dr. Green, Dr. Green. Electroshock. Torture, sex abuse and all of that. About three weeks ago I met a woman who is a therapist. She works north of Los Angeles. If you met this woman and talked to her, you would say 'she's very on top of things, she is very smart, she seems like a real human being.' So she looks at me and she says, "I was part of this when I was a kid, as a child." She doesn't want to talk about it yet, but she said, "... this business about creating perfect spies, I don't think that's it. I don't think that's why they were really doing it." Part of the explanation about what they were supposedly trying to do was to create blank slates ... that was their thinking. You can take a human being and erase their mind, then we can program it to be whatever we want it to be. Well adults just go psychotic, so let's try children ... they are more flexible and they have less in their mind to take out ... how mechanistic can you get, and that would be the rationale supposedly. From that it has been assumed that the whole point of this was to create a perfect spy, with with nice neat categories of sub-personalities, and program and trigger words, manchurian candidate type stuff. You know, "we will now call up sub-personality 134. Are you there?" "Yes I am here." "What have you learned on your recent trip to Vienna?" Start. Bing. And then sub-personality 134 says, "I boarded the train, and went to Vienna, and read the following documents that were given to me ..." -- like a computer? That this was the intention. But this woman said to me, "Yeah, but I think there is something beyond this. It is somewhere in the back of my mind, but I can't get to it." I didn't question her about how she knows this, but she said "First of all this was a very wide-ranging project ... there were echelons of the project, not just simply one level. There were children brought up from South America and Mexico. They were considered expendable. They were used with the crudest techniques of brainwashing and so forth. The idea was to learn from this techniques in a more refined way techniques that would be used on another echelon of children. The best and brightest in America." I said, "Do you mean children from well-to-do families?" She said, "Not necessarily. The smartest."

They could be thinking that what they want to do is program these kids who would later, supposedly, emerge in prominent positions in society, so that they would then have long term control of society by controlling people in power positions. She said (she didn't say "yes") but she said, "Well, yeah, that makes sense. The Nazis got a hold of the intelligentsia. They turned the intelligentsia -- they were able to either silence or bring the intelligentsia into their fold -- so it was a major project. She said to me, "They brought a lot of doctors over here after the War and not just the rocket scientists ... they brought a lot of doctors over here." And all throughout this testimony you will read, sprinkled here, "a doctor with a German accent ... was it Green ... was it Greenburg ... a German Jew? ... did it look like he was a Jew? ... he had blonde hair ..." That kind of stuff.

I would say this is a Nazi project, but a lot of the Nazis are American-born. It shouldn't be excused or explained away on that basis because as we know, if we look at Nazi psychiatry for example, they learned a lot from the Americans, especially about eugenics. This is not something where we should say, " ... well, the Nazis took over ..." This is home-grown stuff. This is Americana at its worst, at its lowest form. This is also the sub-sub-basement that you walk into when you are a materialist, when that is your philosophy. And I don't mean you are a materialist in the sense that you want money, possessions ... I mean, philosophically. The materialist position is that we are meat, and tissue, and cells, and electrical impulses, and that's it. When that system collapses, we are gone, never to return. My own feeling is that when you espouse and embrace that philosophy, the ultimate, ultimate sub-basement that you end up in is that sub-basement ... that's where you end up. Finally, that's where it all comes out.

I must say, even though I admire many of the researchers on psychedelics, and feel that they are basically liberating types of people, I think some of them make a mistake when they start talking about, " ... well, it's all chemicals anyway ... what difference does it make? ... we are only dealing with chemical reactions anyway, so what's this nonsense about consciousness separate from chemicals?" They are using that of course to say, "why is the government trying to outlaw the use of psychedelics, if in fact all consciousness is chemical anyway, they are just being selective in their choices of chemical ... they are saying 'alcohol - yes, lsd - no'." But I think these people have something to think about in this one area. I am not trying to put them down at all, in fact I admire them. But I think when they start talking about "well, consciousness is just chemicals anyway..." I am afraid I have to disagree. I think it is a lot more than chemicals. You can certainly make people do very bizar re things with chemicals, and you can make them suffer a great deal because we are in these bodies ... it's a lot more than that. That's where I think you wind up. You wind up with this crazy idea about programming people ... that's where I think you wind up with this stuff.

On the plus side, if we know this, if we understand what is happening here, and therapists can be brought into this whole dialogue, then we are talking about bridging something that is very un-middle-class into the middle-class and into people who normally don't consider these kinds of things because we are talking therapists here, private practice therapists whose patients come into their office and say "I was part of CIA mind control." I am not saying that the middle class is not some fabulous entity that we have to somehow court, but I am saying that this is an issue which can get some people involved who normally do not get involved and if they are so willing, they can create some havoc with the government and that's my next point here.

One of the reasons that I am going into this, and getting involved in it, is because I want people to begin to see the government for what it actually is and I think this is a way of doing that. Unequivocally coming to it. People say, "the government, yeah ... if we just get more of the right people in ... a little more funding for research ... more this ... more that ... everything is going to work out and we will get the nice guys, elect Bill and don't elect George, and elect Jim and don't elect Phil ..." You know ... it's all this kind of whipsawing stuff I see every time an election comes around. "We gotta vote for Bill because if we don't we'll get George ..." and this and that ... boppada bop .... It's like a vice that people are in, and everybody knows it.

I have a statement here from Colin Ross. A very interesting man. Never heard of him before. He's a psychiatrist from Richardson, Texas. He has been researching the CIA for 20 years. Every time an MKULTRA type researcher dies, he sends away FOIA requests, because he figures, well the guy is dead, they will be more likely to release the documents now, and he just ... he's very cute with this, see? He accumulates a little of this, a little of that. MKULTRA had about 139 to 150 sub-projects ... nobody knows what they all were, or even if that is the subtotal. It's the basic mind control project of the CIA after WWII. He has files on as many of these as he can possibly get. "I have in my possession about 80 of the 149 sub-project files which I obtained through FOIA, filing requests with the CIA on each deceased investigator of interest." (I like that.) He says, "Neurosurgeons at Tulane, Yale and Harvard did extensive research on brain electrode implants with intelligence funding and combined bra in implants with large numbers of drugs including hallucinogens." So while they were telling Tim Leary and Richard Alpert to get out of Harvard ... because a few people were taking acid and enjoying it ... there were other people there who were inserting electrodes in people's brains and then giving them acid. "MKULTRA alone included four sub-projects on children, one was conducted at the International Children's Summer Camp in Maine by an unwitting investigator. The MKULTRA sub-project file in my possession for this project states that "the CIA's interest in this research was in establishing contact with foreign nationals of potential future operational use by the CIA. The children who served as subjects in the project were as young as eleven years old."

"Multiple personality disorder patients in treatment throughout the United States and Canada are describing involvement in mind control research that is much more sophisticated than MKULTRA. Deliberate sexual abuse of children to make them more dissociative ... " and then he ends up simply by saying, "I would be pleased to testify at length at any hearings on CIA and military mind control." Colin Ross, M.D. Psychiatrist Richardson Texas

Here is a statement from a therapist submitted anonymously. "One client told me that they were made to believe they had been abducted by UFO's so that if memories were retrieved, they would be discredited by the community." I found that kind of interesting. Hmmm. Other people mentioned satanic costumes ... CIA people putting on satanic costumes while they were doing their crazy stuff here ...

Here's John Boyd, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist, practiced clinical psychology for 25 years, Ohio State, University of Virginia. "I have treated three patients whose memories of childhood abuse include detailed recall of sophisticated mind control technology being inflicted upon them by "experts" in collusion with the patients' mentally disturbed parents. The independent reports of these individuals contain similar information of an esoteric and intricate nature concerning mind control technology which in my opinion could be gained only through personal experience." The press says nothing. The press says zero about this.

Here's a woman operating under the pseudonym I believe of Chandra Walker-Michaels. "I learned how to handle weapons, particularly how an ice-pick left a neat hole, a hole that allowed so little blood to escape that the victim could remain in public view for hours before they would be discovered not to be napping." "I was taken on planes to Germany and Egypt to assist Joe with arson ... to Israel, along with messages ... to Mexico for terrorist activities. I remember a small laboratory in a partially exposed basement of a large building I visited many times starting at age four south of Washington, D.C. At the age of fourteen I was drugged and woke up on a stretcher, and I heard men outside my door discussing how they had gotten me past the guards at Langley that night. At the age of fifteen Joe introduced me to an elderly man who he referred to as "the Senator". At the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C. the portly gentleman was brought to the room adjoining ours. Our closet space was filled with photographic equipment viewing the Senator's scene ... I refused to participate. I was severely punished."

Just a word about the media, and then we will take a break. One of the best payoffs of being a reporter for fifteen years is that I have come to see this machine called "the media" and how it operates in a way that I never thought was possible because I have talked to a lot of reporters, and they become the eyes, the mouth and the ears for everybody else. Since I am now researching the Oklahoma City bombing, and I have done a lot of research on AIDS, and now this and other topics, there is a pattern that always seems to emerge. The pattern is that there is a cover story that emerges very quickly after something is either revealed or happens. Very quickly a cover story comes to the fore and then anything that does not fit the cover story is discarded. In the case of Oklahoma City, it happens to be basically that McVeigh and a few of his friends are rednecks ... the rednecks are connected to other rednecks who belong to militias and the militias blew up the building and that's it ... we don't w ant to know anything else ... they are all kind of crazy and stupid ... that's the end of the story ... they rented a Ryder truck knowing it could be traced ... they bought 5000 lbs. of ammonium nitrate knowing it could be traced ...(hey business is suddenly picking up ... did you see that guy who suddenly came in and bought 5000 lbs. of ammonium nitrate??? Wow. I thought business was kind of slow and then all of a sudden they came in like 15 or 20 cars and they like, loaded it up in the backs of the station wagons and they kept coming back for more and they took it away ... I guess April is a really good planting month you know?? They have a lot of crops in mind ...) That's the cover, right? They were that stupid, and that's all we have to know. And McVeigh, three hours after the explosion, happens to be driving in a car with no licence, and a cop stops him and says "I will have to cite you for driving without a licence and you will have to appear ..." McVeigh says "No problem", t hen the cop looks at him and he is writing out the citation, he's going to give it to him, and let him drive away. No problem, Driving without a licence. So what? Then the cop says, "Sir, do you have something under your windbreaker there?" And McVeigh says, "I have a weapon under my windbreaker." Pulls down the zipper, there's a 9mm Glock, and a five inch knife hanging off his belt. He has just killed 100 people ... he's on a lonely road some place ... a cop stops him ... he's going to let him go ... he then shows the cop his weapon ... the cop then puts his service revolver to his head, disarms him, takes him to jail, puts him on ice for a few days until the Feds ... they work fast these guys ... three days and they know who did it, they know what happened, they come to the jail where he is, and they take him ... Right? By the way, I was told that initial reports placed McVeigh at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma. People who anonymously testified in here, and it has been mentioned by other people, that some of the mind control that was done on them was done at Tinker Air Force Base. Tinkerbell, right?

So this is the scenario that is painted by the press, see? Talk about mind control here ... now the reporters that I talked to ... how they slip and slide with this ... once the cover story is established ... how they manage to keep from discovering anything, or thinking about anything ... or just considering the insanity of the cover story itself, is really something to behold. And I have been talking to a bunch of reporters down in Oklahoma City now ... I just listen and we talk and it is all very chatty and everything ... and for example one guy who was with the only daily in Oklahoma (The Daily Oklahoman) ... all he could talk about was the federal boys ... the federal boys combing through the wreckage of the building ... the federal boys were there and they did this and they told me and they said this ... and it was kind of like, when a sportswriter covers the Yankees ... the Slugger told me this, and he told me he threw the curve ball and he holds it this way ... had a beer with Mickey ... you know, that kind of stuff ... "the federal boys told me" that they couldn't find any other kind of bomb in the building at all ... that's it ... what else is there to know ... the federal boys day after day were going through the wreckage and they told him they couldn't find anything ... this guy would have talked for three hours like this if I had let him ... and that's how he keeps himself from figuring out what's going on and each reporter has his own little scene.

In the case of this one here, of course, now Valerie Wolf and one of her clients, they say "look we are not sure we really want to get this exposed all the way out because we know that the False Memory Syndrome Foundation right now has a stranglehold on the press." That's the cover story. Nobody cares that the FMSF board is composed of these guys with CIA, mind control connections ... That's the cover story that's laid down, and so everything else is irrelevant. That's what we have to bust -- is that cover story -- with enough people coming forward and saying, "it's not true".

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln10.htm

Canada's Psychiatrists of Terror

The frequent screams of patients that echoed through the hospital did not deter Cameron... in [his] attempts to depattern [his] subjects completely.

John Marks Author, The Search for the Manchurian Candidate
1951

The Agency doctors would continue committing serious breaches of their sacred oath; would still, if need be, use treatment methods that were reckless and dangerous to life.... The [CIAs] director [would look] beyond the borders of the United States, to Canada, to Montreal, to Dr. Ewen Cameron. The psychiatrist and his unsuspecting Canadian patients would be the Agencys flag bearers into the unknown world of influencing memory, changing personality, and disturbing the mind.
Gordon Thomas, author,
Journey Into Madness The True Story of Secret CIA
Mind Control and Medical Abuse
, 1989

The reckless and dangerous treatment mentioned above that was used by Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron at the Allan Memorial Institute in Montreal was electroshock. The methods he developed were called depatterning and psychic driving. They destroyed a patients personality by repeated shocks up to forty times the intensity considered safe. In the 1950s, the CIA paid Cameron $69,000 to do this as part of their mind control operation code-named MK-ULTRA.

OPERATION KNOCKOUT, as part of MK-ULTRA, had the goal of conducting research to define mechanisms involved in the production of involuntary sleep and related unconscious states. Many of Camerons victims were placed into a drug-induced stupor sometimes lasting as long as 90 days. A continuous audio tape played negative messages to the patient 16 hours a day for several weeks. Patients received a shock to their legs at the end of the message. This was followed by 2 to 5 weeks of positive messages run the same way. Politically correct messages, therefore, were implanted into the individuals mind to be unwittingly acted upon in the future.

Depatterning was more violent. The patient was awakened two or three times every day for multiple electroshock treatments using a Page-Russell ECT machine which made it possible to give five consecutive electric shocks in one treatment. Dr. Mary Morrow, a psychiatrist assisting Dr. Cameron with his multiple shocking techniques, recalls how she was told to set the timer for six jolting shocks, the settings twenty times more powerful than she had ever seen used elsewhere. They would go from one shock into another with apnea. That means their breathing would stop. And it was the most terrifying thing Ive ever seen in my life before or since, she would say later.

John Marks, author of The Search For The Manchurian Candidate, tells us: The frequent screams of patients (usually women) that echoed through the hospital did not deter Cameron or most of his associates in their attempts to depattern their subjects completely. Other hospital patients report being petrified by the sleep rooms, where the treatment took place, and they would usually creep down the opposite side of the hall.

Mr. L. McDonald, a patient who was 23 when Cameron depatterned him, had this to say twenty-five years after his treatment: I have no memory of existing prior to 1963, and the recollections I do have of events of the following years until 1966 are fuzzy and few.... My parents were introduced to me... I did not know them. [My five] children came back from wherever they had been living. I had no idea who they were.

Cameron was an eminent psychiatrist, revered by his colleagues, and was president of both the American Psychiatric Association and World Psychiatric Association. He was also a supporter of the Nuremberg Code, specifically designed to outlaw experimentation and medical maltreatment. He swore an oath to uphold the Codes tenets and to abide by the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm. His violation of these oaths and use of electroshock for medical torture, while claiming to his patients it was therapy, is a chilling insight into the mind of this psychiatrist.

http://www.heart7.net/psychiatrists-terror.html

The Canadian Government Has Paid Almost $ 7 Million in Compensation to Victims of Project Monarch
by Wes Penre, 2001


Dr. Ewen Cameron is mentioned on several occasions on my web site. He was also known as "Dr. White", one of the highest Illuminati doctors on this planet. He worked closely together with Dr Green (Joseph Mengele) in Canada and the USA to program children, torturing them in a manner which you and I can't imagine possible. He was a pedophile and a Satanist and a leading psychiatrist. Quite a few victims from his torture have tried to make their voices heard, especially now, since the Internet has become a global forum. Few people have believed those poor survivors, because the cruelty with which they've been treated is so horrible and abominable that the average person can't believe it's true.

Nevertheless - now the Canadian government has compensated victims from project Monarch and MK-ULTRA. They have paid almost $7 million in compensation to the unwitting guinea pigs of FEDERAL FUNDED brainwashing experiments in Montreal, Canada. The figure may even increase as justice department officials sort through about another 50 applications from people who say they were patients of the late Dr. Ewen Cameron at McGill University's Allain Memorial Institute. Jan. 1 was the deadline for applications for the $100,000 payments announced in 1992 by then-justice minister Kim Campbell.

Although there are believed to be only 80 victims of Cameron's(1)  full "depatterning treatment" -- weeks of drug-induced sleep followed by massive electroshock treatments, reducing the patient's mind  to a childhood state -- 329 applications for compensation were received,  justice department lawyer Lou David said.

So far, 69 people have received the lump-sum payments, while 214 were rejected, Davis said. Another 46 are still being reviewed by a  four-member justice committee and Ontario Blue Cross which first screens  applications. The article doesn't scratch the surface of this story -- though I'm glad they at least ran the settlement notice.

Source: OTTAWA (Southam News Wire)


Footnotes:

(1)Lots of good information on Dr. Cameron here: http://www.cchr.org/ect/eng/page18.htm

 

http://www.illuminati-news.com/victim-compensation.htm

                      


MKULTRA Documents


1977 Senate MKULTRA Hearing

In June 1977, a rare cache of MKULTRA documents were discovered, which had escaped destruction by the CIA. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence held a hearing on August 3, 1977, to question CIA officials on the newly-discovered documents. The complete 171-page record is included here, including testimony and dozens of MKULTRA documents on various subprojects.


MKULTRA Subproject No. 83
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This declassified CIA memo was written on April 18, 1958 by Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, chief of the Chemical Division of the agency's Technical Services Staff. Gottlieb, who oversaw many of the MKULTRA projects, reviewed covert CIA support for research studies of "controversial and misunderstood" areas of psychology such as hypnosis, truth drugs, psychic powers and subliminal persuasion.


MKULTRA Hypnosis Experiments
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This memo, written by the CIA's Sidney Gottlieb, is one of the earliest records available from the MKULTRA project. One month after CIA Director Allen Dulles authorized the program, Gottlieb writes of a "planned series of five major experiments" which are to examine "hypnotically induced anxieties," the "relationship of personality to hypnosis," and other matters of the hypnotized mind.


MKULTRA and LSD
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This June 1953 document records Dr. Sidney Gottlieb's approval of an early CIA acid test. "This project will include a continuation of a study of the biochemical, neurophysiological, sociological, and clinical psychiatric aspects of L.S.D.," the CIA scientist writes.


MKULTRA Trickery
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This document reveals the CIA's concern with covert means of administering the mind- and behavior-altering substances researched in MKULTRA projects. In 1953, the Agency commissioned a "manual on trickery," to be authored by a prominent magician, who described ways to conduct "tricks with pills" and other substances.


MKULTRA Materials and Methods
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This 1955 CIA document reviews the Agency's research and development of a shocking list of mind-altering substances and methods, including "materials which will render the indication of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness," and "physical methods of producing shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use."
 

MkUltra Doucments Table




This is a fast Directoy
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001 002 003 004 005 006 007 008 009 010
011 012 013 014 015 016 017 018 019 020
021 022 023 024 025 026 027 028 029 030
031 032 033 034 035 036 037 038 039 040
041 042 043 044 045 046 047 048 049 050
051 052 053 054 055 056 057 058 059 060
061 062 063 064 065 066 067 068 069 070
071 072 073 074 075 076 077 078 079 080
081 082 083 084 085 086 087 088 089 090
091 092 093 094 095 096 097 098 099 100
101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110
111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120
121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170
171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180
181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190
191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200
201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210
211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220
221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230
231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240
241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250
251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260
261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270
271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280
281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 280
291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300
301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309  

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